Depression and working out - Ausbb

katie · 26-06-2009, 01:45 PM

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about what role exercise has in keeping depression at bay.

I've been tired and run down lately (remember my overtraining thread?) and this feeling has persisted despite cutting back on the workouts. It has also extended to a general "can't be bothered" feeling about almost everything (I'm having to drag myself to my workouts and have been cancelling social events lately, as I don't feel like socialising)

My GP ordered a fasting blood test (I'm waiting for the results) to check my thyroid, iron, or for diabetes. If that comes back with the all clear, I might have to look to depression as an explanation for my exhaustion and lack of motivation.

I went onto beyondblue: the national depression initiative - Depression Checklist and did the 3 quizzes there. Here is one of my result:

Kessler Psychological Distress Scale (K10)

I scored 27, where
1-15 = Low or no risk
16-29 = Medium risk
30-50 = High risk

For me, exercise makes me feel infinitely better after the workout compared to before the workout. The hardest bit is beginning to exercise, especially when one is feeling down. I have sometimes skipped a workout because I couldn't be bothered and then became even more down about the omission.

(Also, I'm glad I hired a PT. It may not have been the most cost-effective option, but it forces me out of bed and to get my day started.)

So, is exercise a good or sustainable approach for combating depression? What experiences can you share that relate to training while depressed? Discuss.

Kyle Aaron · 26-06-2009, 02:12 PM

Physical and social activity generally are good for physical and mental health, each ties into the other.

For example, yesterday I was reading in The Age about the "Mediterranean diet". People studying it were trying to isolate which particular thing - more wine, less red meat, etc - gave the greatest benefit for a longer and healthier life. And it turns out that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; the different foods together work better than any of them on their own.

But I wondered if maybe they'd missed something. The people eating the Mediterranean diet are also those living the Mediterranean lifestyle. That means that they remain somewhat physically active (the Wog's Garden, and the walks to shops and church), and socially active (visits to friends, big family around all the time). This contrasts with the Anglo lifestyle of getting less and less active as you grow older, and being abandoned by friends and family.

Maybe they stay healthy and live longer not just because of what the eat, but because they have a reason to stay healthy and live longer.

So I certainly think that working out helps stave off depression. But as or more important is these social connections we have. I mean, that's why so many long-term unemployed have depression - they don't do paid work in a workplace with other people or go out much, so they just don't know anybody.

Lastly, not wanting to get up early to go work out is not necessarily depression. It might just be laziness.

Oh, and their questionairre would have a large chunk of our population being at medium risk of depression. Which means either their questionairre is no good, or that our society is pathological. Both are possible

kindred · 26-06-2009, 02:49 PM

K-10 I got 32 i feel sad about that lol.

katie · 26-06-2009, 04:35 PM

I thought my score of 27 was bad... would you consider seeing a GP about it, kindred?

(off-topic, but your signature is hilarious)

Kyle, funny you should bring up social life and friends. I'm thinking about ditching my friends, or at least seeing them less. Particularly my high school ones. Many years later, I don't really know what we have in common any more. None of them like exercising and I'm sometimes teased for being so hard-core (I haven't even mentioned lifting to them - it's just the fun runs and things like that!) I feel that we really have nothing to talk about.

So, in response to what Kyle said: "But as or more important is these social connections we have." - I would agree, as long as these social connections are meaningful to you. The problem is, if you don't have meaningful social connections, how can you go out and make some?

modo · 26-06-2009, 05:24 PM

i have depression and feel much worse post training, i get angrier, more aggressive, i am violent. it doesnt help for me.

Also i do not go out as i always am alone. i have no friends any more. people have stopped talking to me because they think i am weird. that only added to being depressed more so. i am at a point where i worry too much about what i may do. beyond blue is a joke too. they dont help much, send a book, tell you you will be fine.

i scored 32 on test by the way.

Kyle Aaron · 26-06-2009, 05:33 PM

You don't necessarily have to have a lifestyle in common with people to be their friend.

You and I, if in the same city and friends, would relate on the basis of shared lifestyle and interests - we go on as we started. But your high school friends you can relate on the basis of shared history.

Differences (in lifestyle, philosophies, etc) can clash, but they can also complement - like the different pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. For example, my woman is extroverted, and I'm introverted. This could cause a clash, but we ensure our approaches complement instead. I keep her at home a bit and stop her from doing too many things and burning out, she takes me out and stops me from becoming a boring hermit.

It doesn't always work, but it can sometimes.

I think often we get an idea in our head of whether we like or dislike someone, and then we look for reasons to reinforce that opinion. My best friend lives a very different lifestyle to me, very materialistic, is overweight, sleeps poorly and has a pretty bland married life. But I met him before all that, and we talk about other things - when he talks about that part of his life, I spend half the time going, "but what about -" in frustration, and the other half my time shaking my head sadly. But he's still my best friend.

Then I know another person who's very materialistic, but fit and healthy, and I dislike them.

Why? It makes no sense unless we admit: really we decide to like or dislike someone, then we find extra reasons to have that like or dislike.

As we get older, I think it becomes more difficult to make friends. Seinfeld once had a skit about how when you're a kid if they live in your street they're your friend, if they live next door they're your best friend. The one study on friendship (as opposed to sexual relationships) I know of, they said, "where can we find a bunch of people who don't know each-other, and see who befriends who over time, then we can find out why?"

They looked at a bunch of army recruits. They tested religious background, looked at race, myer-briggs personality type, all that stuff. And the number one determinant of who became friends with whom was... if their surnames were close in the alphabet. This made no sense until they realised... the sergeants put them in bunks and rooms in alphabetical order. So Smith just met and got to talk to Smith and Singh quite a lot, and Jones talked to Johnson and Jane, but Smith and Jones didn't meet much.

People just befriended whoever was around and they were forced to talk to a lot.

As we get older, we're not forced to talk to people as much. That's why most of us had more friends in school than we do at work. At work we just avoid the idiots who annoy us, at school we couldn't, so we ended up making those idiots into our friends.

David Wong talks about this in 7 reasons the 21st century is making you miserable.

"It turns out, apparently, that after you get over that first irritation, after you shed your shell of "they listen to different music because they wouldn't understand mine" superiority, there's a sort of comfort in needing other people and being needed on a level beyond common interests. It turns out humans are social animals after all. And that ability to suffer fools, to tolerate annoyance, that's literally the one single thing that allows you to function in a world populated by other people who aren't you. Otherwise, you turn emo. Science has proven it."

So I think perhaps the question of how we make friends is the same as how we make muscle or endurance - just stick with it however painful...

Flea · 26-06-2009, 05:39 PM

I sometimes get depressed mostly only when im bored tho..

I find the best way to get in the mood to work out it by either listing to music or watching a movie something to help get you motovated..
youtube is good for this, lately ive been watching alot of boxing an it really gets me pumped fora good work out and then session on the bag

katie · 26-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Fantastic post Kyle - some food for thought in there!

That's actually what happened with my school friends too - we became friends from Year 7 onwards because of being put into the same roll call group due to our last names.

I'm going off to do some thinking now...

Kyle Aaron · 26-06-2009, 05:43 PM

Read Wong's article first

Flea · 26-06-2009, 05:44 PM

sorry to high jack -
but does depression have an effect on muscle growth? obviously it will effect your work out/diet mentally, but would say a depressed person would be physically disadvantage as apposed to a happy person

does that even make sense..

26-06-2009, 01:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
katie Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Gender: Posts: 1,130	Depression and working out I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts about what role exercise has in keeping depression at bay. I've been tired and run down lately (remember my overtraining thread?) and this feeling has persisted despite cutting back on the workouts. It has also extended to a general "can't be bothered" feeling about almost everything (I'm having to drag myself to my workouts and have been cancelling social events lately, as I don't feel like socialising) My GP ordered a fasting blood test (I'm waiting for the results) to check my thyroid, iron, or for diabetes. If that comes back with the all clear, I might have to look to depression as an explanation for my exhaustion and lack of motivation. I went onto beyondblue: the national depression initiative - Depression Checklist and did the 3 quizzes there. Here is one of my result: Kessler Psychological Distress Scale (K10) I scored 27, where 1-15 = Low or no risk 16-29 = Medium risk 30-50 = High risk For me, exercise makes me feel infinitely better after the workout compared to before the workout. The hardest bit is beginning to exercise, especially when one is feeling down. I have sometimes skipped a workout because I couldn't be bothered and then became even more down about the omission. (Also, I'm glad I hired a PT. It may not have been the most cost-effective option, but it forces me out of bed and to get my day started.) So, is exercise a good or sustainable approach for combating depression? What experiences can you share that relate to training while depressed? Discuss. __________________ Rock climbing since 2005; running and resistance training since May 2009

26-06-2009, 02:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kyle Aaron Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Gender: Posts: 3,682	Physical and social activity generally are good for physical and mental health, each ties into the other. For example, yesterday I was reading in The Age about the "Mediterranean diet". People studying it were trying to isolate which particular thing - more wine, less red meat, etc - gave the greatest benefit for a longer and healthier life. And it turns out that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; the different foods together work better than any of them on their own. But I wondered if maybe they'd missed something. The people eating the Mediterranean diet are also those living the Mediterranean lifestyle. That means that they remain somewhat physically active (the Wog's Garden, and the walks to shops and church), and socially active (visits to friends, big family around all the time). This contrasts with the Anglo lifestyle of getting less and less active as you grow older, and being abandoned by friends and family. Maybe they stay healthy and live longer not just because of what the eat, but because they have a reason to stay healthy and live longer. So I certainly think that working out helps stave off depression. But as or more important is these social connections we have. I mean, that's why so many long-term unemployed have depression - they don't do paid work in a workplace with other people or go out much, so they just don't know anybody. Lastly, not wanting to get up early to go work out is not necessarily depression. It might just be laziness. Oh, and their questionairre would have a large chunk of our population being at medium risk of depression. Which means either their questionairre is no good, or that our society is pathological. Both are possible __________________ Recent clients' best results: BW +10kg/-27kg ... BF-11% ... ♀/♂1RM/kg SQ65/145 OHP30/65 DL75/170 "fitness and lifting is just an interest I have. Plain and simple. Some people like music, others like shopping, I like deadlifts." - a client[/SIZE] Last edited by Kyle Aaron; 26-06-2009 at 02:15 PM.

26-06-2009, 02:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
kindred Active Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Australia Gender: Posts: 3,102	K-10 I got 32 i feel sad about that lol. __________________ http://ausbb.com/member-training-dia...html#post80479

26-06-2009, 04:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
katie Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Gender: Posts: 1,130	I thought my score of 27 was bad... would you consider seeing a GP about it, kindred? (off-topic, but your signature is hilarious) Kyle, funny you should bring up social life and friends. I'm thinking about ditching my friends, or at least seeing them less. Particularly my high school ones. Many years later, I don't really know what we have in common any more. None of them like exercising and I'm sometimes teased for being so hard-core (I haven't even mentioned lifting to them - it's just the fun runs and things like that!) I feel that we really have nothing to talk about. So, in response to what Kyle said: "But as or more important is these social connections we have." - I would agree, as long as these social connections are meaningful to you. The problem is, if you don't have meaningful social connections, how can you go out and make some? __________________ Rock climbing since 2005; running and resistance training since May 2009

26-06-2009, 05:24 PM	#5 (permalink)
modo Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Gender: Posts: 1,113	i have depression and feel much worse post training, i get angrier, more aggressive, i am violent. it doesnt help for me. Also i do not go out as i always am alone. i have no friends any more. people have stopped talking to me because they think i am weird. that only added to being depressed more so. i am at a point where i worry too much about what i may do. beyond blue is a joke too. they dont help much, send a book, tell you you will be fine. i scored 32 on test by the way. Last edited by modo; 26-06-2009 at 05:35 PM.

26-06-2009, 05:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kyle Aaron Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Gender: Posts: 3,682	You don't necessarily have to have a lifestyle in common with people to be their friend. You and I, if in the same city and friends, would relate on the basis of shared lifestyle and interests - we go on as we started. But your high school friends you can relate on the basis of shared history. Differences (in lifestyle, philosophies, etc) can clash, but they can also complement - like the different pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. For example, my woman is extroverted, and I'm introverted. This could cause a clash, but we ensure our approaches complement instead. I keep her at home a bit and stop her from doing too many things and burning out, she takes me out and stops me from becoming a boring hermit. It doesn't always work, but it can sometimes. I think often we get an idea in our head of whether we like or dislike someone, and then we look for reasons to reinforce that opinion. My best friend lives a very different lifestyle to me, very materialistic, is overweight, sleeps poorly and has a pretty bland married life. But I met him before all that, and we talk about other things - when he talks about that part of his life, I spend half the time going, "but what about -" in frustration, and the other half my time shaking my head sadly. But he's still my best friend. Then I know another person who's very materialistic, but fit and healthy, and I dislike them. Why? It makes no sense unless we admit: really we decide to like or dislike someone, then we find extra reasons to have that like or dislike. As we get older, I think it becomes more difficult to make friends. Seinfeld once had a skit about how when you're a kid if they live in your street they're your friend, if they live next door they're your best friend. The one study on friendship (as opposed to sexual relationships) I know of, they said, "where can we find a bunch of people who don't know each-other, and see who befriends who over time, then we can find out why?" They looked at a bunch of army recruits. They tested religious background, looked at race, myer-briggs personality type, all that stuff. And the number one determinant of who became friends with whom was... if their surnames were close in the alphabet. This made no sense until they realised... the sergeants put them in bunks and rooms in alphabetical order. So Smith just met and got to talk to Smith and Singh quite a lot, and Jones talked to Johnson and Jane, but Smith and Jones didn't meet much. People just befriended whoever was around and they were forced to talk to a lot. As we get older, we're not forced to talk to people as much. That's why most of us had more friends in school than we do at work. At work we just avoid the idiots who annoy us, at school we couldn't, so we ended up making those idiots into our friends. David Wong talks about this in 7 reasons the 21st century is making you miserable. "It turns out, apparently, that after you get over that first irritation, after you shed your shell of "they listen to different music because they wouldn't understand mine" superiority, there's a sort of comfort in needing other people and being needed on a level beyond common interests. It turns out humans are social animals after all. And that ability to suffer fools, to tolerate annoyance, that's literally the one single thing that allows you to function in a world populated by other people who aren't you. Otherwise, you turn emo. Science has proven it." So I think perhaps the question of how we make friends is the same as how we make muscle or endurance - just stick with it however painful... __________________ Recent clients' best results: BW +10kg/-27kg ... BF-11% ... ♀/♂1RM/kg SQ65/145 OHP30/65 DL75/170 "fitness and lifting is just an interest I have. Plain and simple. Some people like music, others like shopping, I like deadlifts." - a client[/SIZE] Last edited by Kyle Aaron; 26-06-2009 at 05:40 PM.

26-06-2009, 05:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Flea Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: QLD Gender: Posts: 257	I sometimes get depressed mostly only when im bored tho.. I find the best way to get in the mood to work out it by either listing to music or watching a movie something to help get you motovated.. youtube is good for this, lately ive been watching alot of boxing an it really gets me pumped fora good work out and then session on the bag __________________ Faster then a Japanese Racing Snake

26-06-2009, 05:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
katie Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Gender: Posts: 1,130	Fantastic post Kyle - some food for thought in there! That's actually what happened with my school friends too - we became friends from Year 7 onwards because of being put into the same roll call group due to our last names. I'm going off to do some thinking now... __________________ Rock climbing since 2005; running and resistance training since May 2009

26-06-2009, 05:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
Kyle Aaron Active Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Gender: Posts: 3,682	Read Wong's article first __________________ Recent clients' best results: BW +10kg/-27kg ... BF-11% ... ♀/♂1RM/kg SQ65/145 OHP30/65 DL75/170 "fitness and lifting is just an interest I have. Plain and simple. Some people like music, others like shopping, I like deadlifts." - a client[/SIZE]

26-06-2009, 05:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
Flea Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: QLD Gender: Posts: 257	sorry to high jack - but does depression have an effect on muscle growth? obviously it will effect your work out/diet mentally, but would say a depressed person would be physically disadvantage as apposed to a happy person does that even make sense.. __________________ Faster then a Japanese Racing Snake