Fadi

I don't think military service is worth it anywhere in the world. If no one joins, then the politicians would have to find another way of resolving their issues of power and greed instead of young people killing each other needlessly.

If it's just for a different career, then insure you won't go to jail as Mohammad Ali Clay did when he refused to serve in Vietnam.

PS: I'm presuming you don't like killing other human beings.


Fadi.

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Squat 200kg, FSquat 195kg, C&J 160kg, PC 140kg, MP 90kg.

Kyle Aaron

They just bring in conscription instead... It would be nice if everyone simply refused, alas we have few Ghandis in this world who can inspire others to mass civil disobedience.
Only about 1/6 of jobs in the military involve firing at the enemy. There are also cooks, drivers, medics, aircraft engineers, and so on and so forth.

Much of the military's effort go into things like clearing mines (as the ADF did in Namibia, Cambodia, Timor and is doing in Afghanistan) which helps civilians, building bridges (ADF built a bridge between Cambodia and Laos), drilling wells, educating locals, and so on.

And of those guys actually at the sharp end, most will never face that situation, either because there is no conflict in their term of service, or because during that conflict nothing much happens.

The ADF is run by a government very wary of casualties. Aussies are generally against the conflicts we get involved in, any serious casualties would lead to falls of government. Thus, nowadays only the special forces get sent out on combat missions (government can keep the results secret and people expect the SAS and Commandos to have casualties), the infantry and everyone else largely sticks to the safer areas and bases. So that most Aussie infantry soldiers won't face the choice of whether or not to fire at the enemy.

And of those at the sharp end whose edges are used, most never fire directly at the enemy, instead firing in the air, reloading magazines for the guy who is firing, getting on the radio, bandaging wounded, and so on. Only about 1/4 infantry soldiers will fire directly at the enemy. Humans have an instinctive phobia of killing or seriously injuring others.

Overall, the ADF has about as much to do with killing as McDs has to do with producing good food.

Still, I cannot recommend it. My old man's advice proved correct: "Join the Army, get fcked around by experts."

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Recent clients' best results: BW +10kg/-27kg ... BF-11% ... ♀/♂1RM/kg SQ65/145 OHP30/65 DL75/170
"fitness and lifting is just an interest I have. Plain and simple. Some people like music, others like shopping, I like deadlifts." - a client[/SIZE]

Fadi

Mmmm, what made me think you'd be commenting on my comment now Kyle?!

Thank you for your input, as always, I learn from you mate.


Fadi.

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Squat 200kg, FSquat 195kg, C&J 160kg, PC 140kg, MP 90kg.

brendon

agree. its not worth it any where. why kill someone? even though not all will have the chance to.
my opinion is war is just a really dumb way of resolving issues. what positive comes out of war? nothing. war is just a means for snobby rich powerful people to use others to fight there battles using death.. if conscription came in i will gladly go to prison instead of participating in any form of war. but thats me. i dont want anything to do with it.
as you said kyle humans have a phobia of killing other humans. its not meant to be so i choose to not want to be part of it.

__________________
Current BW 98kg ,height 5ft 11 : Bench: 130kg x1, Squat: 200kg x1 Deadlift: 240kg x1 Clean: 125kg Overhead: 110kg
All lifts 100% raw

Kyle Aaron

Well, as a Jew I can definitely think of one country that needed serious stomping on in history. Pacifism has that problem - what happens when the pacifist runs into a violent person? You take the hit, or you oppose them in some non-violent way - but it's often bloody difficult to do that.

Denmark opposed the Germans non-violently, and it worked very well, but German and Polish attempts at non-violent opposition just led to massacres, and the problems continued. So in general I would say that the best solution was the one chosen - bomb, invade, and occupy the country, and rewrite their constitution and stick around with troops to enforce it to ensure they rejoined the civilised world.

But most wars are pointless, yes.

Lots of people say they'd rather go to prison than war, but in practice it takes great big balls to do that. Being a genuine pacifist - as opposed to someone who doesn't oppose a war, just opposes having to put themselves in harm's way, eg the typical middle-class opponent of conscription who never made a noise when all the working class kids went off to war - being that genuine pacifist takes a lot of courage. Most people don't have that.

Being an effective pacifist takes great genius. Most people don't have that, either.

Gandhi and MLK were much more brilliant leaders than the typical General. Any idiot can resolve an issue with violence, you have to be pretty smart and ballsy to resolve it without violence.

I think the world is getting generally less violent and nasty. Yes, we have wars going on - but worldwide six times as many people die in car accidents as die in wars (1.2 vs 0.2 million annually). And there are some things that we did in WWII that would just be unthinkable now.

Not just atomic weapons, but things like the firebombing of Tokyo or Dresden - where 200,000 people died in one night. Can you imagine us having done that when we invaded Iraq? It's unthinkable.

And the countries of Europe which had spent the last thousand years doing nothing but fight each-other, they have joined in a democratic European Union. Will it last? Who knows. But there's peace and more or less great freedoms for the people.

So things are still awful in many ways, but they are improving. Some of those improvements came because of wars (eg Germany and Japan), some came about despite wars (eg decolonialisation of Africa and Asia).

We have a long way to go, though. And a soldier, sailor or airman in the ADF may contribute to that. But there are probably better ways to contribute to the improvement of your country and the world.

__________________
Recent clients' best results: BW +10kg/-27kg ... BF-11% ... ♀/♂1RM/kg SQ65/145 OHP30/65 DL75/170
"fitness and lifting is just an interest I have. Plain and simple. Some people like music, others like shopping, I like deadlifts." - a client[/SIZE]

brendon

yeah i know it would take big balls to go to prison instead of war. but i am very confident i would. i am very certain my belief in my own beliefs will help me not participate. it may seem the world is getting less nasty in wars but its getting worse in every other way. like said in that other post with the indian dude choking. people just dont care about others anymore, everyone is to busy and self centered to help ppl in situations like that. you cant even go out anymore and not have to worry about some dousche bag trying to start something and then when they do they pull a knife on you or worse.

you say imagine if went into iraq and fire bombingplace in one go... . well may as well just do that.. how many have died there in total? so called bad guys and civilians. war is still all bad its just all sugar coated now and what was seen to be very bad 30yrs ago is now considered normal so is it really better?

not having a go at you but you say as an airmen or seaman or soldier your contributing to the improvement of that country... but contributing to what? the improvement, or the destruction and death caused by the so called improvement?

__________________
Current BW 98kg ,height 5ft 11 : Bench: 130kg x1, Squat: 200kg x1 Deadlift: 240kg x1 Clean: 125kg Overhead: 110kg
All lifts 100% raw

-LJ-

Brendon if Indonesia was to invade and Australia was left on its own, would you defend Australia if you got conscripted?

ChrisOX

I would seeing as they greatly out number us and we need all the ppl we can get to protect this great of ours, every full blooded aussie would have to answer yes to this one!

brendon

id have to say no with that. i wouldnt. due to my beliefs i would not.

__________________
Current BW 98kg ,height 5ft 11 : Bench: 130kg x1, Squat: 200kg x1 Deadlift: 240kg x1 Clean: 125kg Overhead: 110kg
All lifts 100% raw

-LJ-

I could not take another persons life, unless mine was in critical danger.