Powerclean instructional video - Page 5 - Ausbb

haz · 08-11-2009, 08:03 AM

ah okay thank you. makes sense.

little_lifter · 27-01-2011, 06:08 PM

Sorry to dig up an old thread

Anyway, I was watching a Tommy Kono lecture. In it he says the powerclean is basically a waste of time for the Olympic lifts.

He says that the weight forces the body to a deeper position in the clean. And the powerclean uses to much power to execute and it does not carry over to the squat clean.

Any thoughts? He also raises some issues with pulls which I believe were discussed earlier in this thread

The link is here:

YouTube - Tommy Kono lecture/ instruction on Olympic Lifting Part 2

He says it near the end though, after he finishes taking about the snatch

PTC · 28-01-2011, 12:12 AM

Not sure there is a single guy on here looking to be a competetive OL.

We do the powerclean as an exercise, not as a competition lift.

Tommy Kono was a competing OL and as far as I know, the powerclean is not an OL

Pete is the only guy on here actually competing in OL

Hawkpeter · 28-01-2011, 08:43 AM

For someone just looking to get stronger and whom enjoys their barbell lifts I think the powerclean is an ample inclusion. For someone who is lifting in order to get good at a sport outside the weight room then the full squat clean is well worth developing.

Many athletes have powercleans included in their gym workouts and then also have plyometric work included as well. It seems to me that the development of the full clean negates to a large degree the inclusion of box jumps, medball throws and other plyo selections.

The great skill of the full clean and snatch as apposed to the power versions is the practice of reversing direction, pulling yourself under the bar and receiving the it in a new base of support, the lifter having to balance themselves and the bar.

The powerclean asks the lifter to accelerate the bar continuously from the floor and pull mostly for height. The clean adds a whole extra dimension, and as I say, I think for an athlete, its well worth getting good at if you can be coached to do it efficiently. The powerclean might be an exercise selection for some OL if they are not getting everything they could from the first 2 phases of the lift and are trying to get under the bar to early. Bt they always go back to the whole lift.

Athletes who can clean well will be very good at plyo work without even much experience at it. The transfer of the full snatch and clean is significant to other movements. The other way around is not so true.

PowerBuilder · 28-01-2011, 08:45 AM

I have learned many, many, many things about OL since joining my club a little over a year ago. When I'm able to I'll jot down a few thoughts in a better format. As a bit of a teaser though...

The starting position is crucial. If you start the lift off poorly your likely to end it poorly. It's vital to have your hips at the right angle. Vital to have your shins at a certain angle (with the bar either touching or super close to the bar). Having your shoulders well over the bar is crucial. Also holding the bar at the same position as you normally do. With the snatch my hands are usually an inch away from the rings..since my arms are a tad bit longer than my body length.

Now, assuming that your in the right position to do a P. Clean. Your back is set. Your glutes and hamstrings are taught. Hands are about shoulderwidth. Your shoulder girdle is in front of the bar....the 'first pull' (first out of three) is as you pull the bar up, pull your knees out of the way. It's common to either swing the bar in front of the shins, or smash your shins with the bar. Both are wrong. As you stand up, your back angle stays the same, your shoulder position is still over the bar. Simply change the angle of ankle joint as the bar rises...

I'll post more stuff latter todday. As Markos said....there is NO arm bending. The only time you allow elbow flexion (bend your elbows) is once the bar is as high as it's going to get and your moving under the bar. If your having bicep pain at all. You're doing it wrong.

little_lifter · 28-01-2011, 03:10 PM

Sorry Markos, I didn't make my point very well. I was talking about the value of the powerclean when it comes to learning and strengthening the c&j and the snatch.

I didn't make that clear so I apologise.

Hawkpeter this is more to what I was getting at before. I like your points on it. I was talking about the value of the powerclean for the traditional lifts. But I do know what you are talking about with the difference between the full and power versions of lift; The full versions feel much, much different and add an extra element to the lift

PB, I like what you've written so far and I look forward to reading the rest when you have the time to write it. Not sure what you mean about the arm bending thing...

Hawkpeter · 28-01-2011, 03:45 PM

little_lifter, an OL may develop a pattern where they are so fixated on getting under the bar to catch it (the third pull) that they do not get everything they can from the 2nd pull (from the pockets).

Often you will hear OL coaches calling out something like 'finish the pull'. They're talking about that 2nd pull and how the lifter might not be getting everything out of that phase, it leads to a situation where it doesn't matter that they are quick to get under the bar.... they dont have enough time because the bar has already started to amortize (stopped rising) and started to descend at a rate and to a position at which they cannot catch it.

I can see how addressing this is most easily done in the power clean movement. Let's say a lifter was cutting their 2nd pull as they worked up to their daily max or whatever is programmed for that day. Coach detects something inefficient. Instructs lifter to go back down and start power cleaning with a 2nd pull emphasis then the lifter starts working the weight back up again.

Regarding the elbows bending, the first 2 pulls are about extension at hip, knee and ankle; the elbow does not flex in order to create vertical motion on the bar. The elbow will bend, as Powerbuilder pointed out, as the third pull begins; when the lifter pulls themselves under the bar.

The other issue about the difference between the full lift and the power version is the nature of how the lifter squats. Someone new to lifting or whom has never developed much depth to their squatting will not be able to get the full return and ascent after receiving the bar in the deep squat position. There is a springiness and bounciness that many lifters have not developed and therefore cannot access then return onto the bar. This component of the lift, the stretch reflex, is how and why the 48kg women's olympic champion Chen Xiexia has put up 120kg in the clean and jerk.

08-11-2009, 08:03 AM	#41 (permalink)
haz Active Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sydney Gender: Posts: 1,260	ah okay thank you. makes sense. __________________ Harry

28-01-2011, 03:10 PM	#46 (permalink)
little_lifter Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Gender: Posts: 142	Sorry Markos, I didn't make my point very well. I was talking about the value of the powerclean when it comes to learning and strengthening the c&j and the snatch. I didn't make that clear so I apologise. Hawkpeter this is more to what I was getting at before. I like your points on it. I was talking about the value of the powerclean for the traditional lifts. But I do know what you are talking about with the difference between the full and power versions of lift; The full versions feel much, much different and add an extra element to the lift PB, I like what you've written so far and I look forward to reading the rest when you have the time to write it. Not sure what you mean about the arm bending thing... __________________ SQ-110kg 5 x 5 DL-150kg x1 PC&J-85kg x 1 @BW-80kg

28-01-2011, 12:12 AM	#43 (permalink)
PTC Active Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Frankston Gender: Posts: 6,725	Not sure there is a single guy on here looking to be a competetive OL. We do the powerclean as an exercise, not as a competition lift. Tommy Kono was a competing OL and as far as I know, the powerclean is not an OL Pete is the only guy on here actually competing in OL

28-01-2011, 08:43 AM	#44 (permalink)
Hawkpeter Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Shire, NSW Gender: Posts: 73	For someone just looking to get stronger and whom enjoys their barbell lifts I think the powerclean is an ample inclusion. For someone who is lifting in order to get good at a sport outside the weight room then the full squat clean is well worth developing. Many athletes have powercleans included in their gym workouts and then also have plyometric work included as well. It seems to me that the development of the full clean negates to a large degree the inclusion of box jumps, medball throws and other plyo selections. The great skill of the full clean and snatch as apposed to the power versions is the practice of reversing direction, pulling yourself under the bar and receiving the it in a new base of support, the lifter having to balance themselves and the bar. The powerclean asks the lifter to accelerate the bar continuously from the floor and pull mostly for height. The clean adds a whole extra dimension, and as I say, I think for an athlete, its well worth getting good at if you can be coached to do it efficiently. The powerclean might be an exercise selection for some OL if they are not getting everything they could from the first 2 phases of the lift and are trying to get under the bar to early. Bt they always go back to the whole lift. Athletes who can clean well will be very good at plyo work without even much experience at it. The transfer of the full snatch and clean is significant to other movements. The other way around is not so true.

28-01-2011, 08:45 AM	#45 (permalink)
PowerBuilder Active Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Gender: Posts: 2,166	I have learned many, many, many things about OL since joining my club a little over a year ago. When I'm able to I'll jot down a few thoughts in a better format. As a bit of a teaser though... The starting position is crucial. If you start the lift off poorly your likely to end it poorly. It's vital to have your hips at the right angle. Vital to have your shins at a certain angle (with the bar either touching or super close to the bar). Having your shoulders well over the bar is crucial. Also holding the bar at the same position as you normally do. With the snatch my hands are usually an inch away from the rings..since my arms are a tad bit longer than my body length. Now, assuming that your in the right position to do a P. Clean. Your back is set. Your glutes and hamstrings are taught. Hands are about shoulderwidth. Your shoulder girdle is in front of the bar....the 'first pull' (first out of three) is as you pull the bar up, pull your knees out of the way. It's common to either swing the bar in front of the shins, or smash your shins with the bar. Both are wrong. As you stand up, your back angle stays the same, your shoulder position is still over the bar. Simply change the angle of ankle joint as the bar rises... I'll post more stuff latter todday. As Markos said....there is NO arm bending. The only time you allow elbow flexion (bend your elbows) is once the bar is as high as it's going to get and your moving under the bar. If your having bicep pain at all. You're doing it wrong.

28-01-2011, 03:45 PM	#47 (permalink)
Hawkpeter Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Shire, NSW Gender: Posts: 73	little_lifter, an OL may develop a pattern where they are so fixated on getting under the bar to catch it (the third pull) that they do not get everything they can from the 2nd pull (from the pockets). Often you will hear OL coaches calling out something like 'finish the pull'. They're talking about that 2nd pull and how the lifter might not be getting everything out of that phase, it leads to a situation where it doesn't matter that they are quick to get under the bar.... they dont have enough time because the bar has already started to amortize (stopped rising) and started to descend at a rate and to a position at which they cannot catch it. I can see how addressing this is most easily done in the power clean movement. Let's say a lifter was cutting their 2nd pull as they worked up to their daily max or whatever is programmed for that day. Coach detects something inefficient. Instructs lifter to go back down and start power cleaning with a 2nd pull emphasis then the lifter starts working the weight back up again. Regarding the elbows bending, the first 2 pulls are about extension at hip, knee and ankle; the elbow does not flex in order to create vertical motion on the bar. The elbow will bend, as Powerbuilder pointed out, as the third pull begins; when the lifter pulls themselves under the bar. The other issue about the difference between the full lift and the power version is the nature of how the lifter squats. Someone new to lifting or whom has never developed much depth to their squatting will not be able to get the full return and ascent after receiving the bar in the deep squat position. There is a springiness and bounciness that many lifters have not developed and therefore cannot access then return onto the bar. This component of the lift, the stretch reflex, is how and why the 48kg women's olympic champion Chen Xiexia has put up 120kg in the clean and jerk.