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spartacus

Well-known member
this question has long interested me given my weak legs. My thoughts have also been pricked by the recent thread concerning 'the appearance of strength'.

And don't get me wrong; I think the squat is one of the great exercises.

But from a non-lifting perspective, especially for individuals who are reasonably tall or who have a much stronger posterior chain and back (such as myself), I now prefer leg press over squats.

For the past 2-3 months I have given squats away and carried out leg presses, combined with lunges, stepups, leg extensions and leg curls.

As my leg press has gone up, so my deadlift shows signs of getting back to 2011 levels, even though I only started light deadlifts a few weeks ago (last did them last October).

So, my conclusion is leg press is more effective for myself in terms of intense lifting to build leg strength than a squat.

I also note that my best ever standing long jump (2.9m) was achieved after a winter of leg presses and leg extensions.

While I am not arguing that squats are not a great exercise, I am interested in your thoughts from a non-lifting sport perspective, in line with attached?

http://bretcontreras.com/leg-press-functional-strength/
 
to further argue my point for non-lifting sports, I cite Aust track cycling coach

http://www.aboc.com.au/Members/carl/ais-power-training-for-sprinters

7. Gym is generally 3-4sets of 3 max lower body strength or power lifts - early in the phase, two strength and one power, later, two power and one strength. I don't use cleans, jerks or snatches with our current riders - they are too technical for maximal efforts unless you have years of experience. We do one bilateral strength lift each session for "core" strength (Squat, Deadlift, Romanian Deadlift) - usually lower back is the limiting factor not legs and this is the only reason I use these lifts - for back strength in standing starts. The rest of the lifts are unilateral. How many feet do you push each pedal with at one time? If you train bilaterally you get stronger bilaterally and unilateral strength lags behind. If you train unilaterally, you get stronger unilaterally. It's a neural thing.

Single-leg Press is our bread and butter. Different foot and hip positions for different phases of pedal stroke, standing, seated, etc. I use high speed video to match joint angles and velocities for each rider. We mainly do it ballistically for power - throw the sled as far as you can - at different percentages of max to match up to different muscle contraction velocities for different phases of the acceleration (different cadences). We do a lot of single-leg plyos on boxes, stairs, bunjee sleds, etc during speed phases. Strength and power gains are extremely specific and do not necessarily transfer well. When Ryan Bayley beat Sean Eadie in the Commonwealth Games sprint final in 2002, Sean was tripling 250kg for a parallel back squat and Ryan was tripling 120kg On single-leg press, they were much closer (20kg) and so was the racing.

Single-leg squats (front and back) and deadlifts usually make up the third exercise and are as much for pelvic stability as strength. I'm going to try single-leg pulls and cleans this year, but these will not be our primary power exercises - more of a preparation for the work before Beijing. We have done SL squats, deadlifts and pulls for years now and the riders are pretty stable. An example of numbers - our best single-leg squat figures are 3 @ 165kg on each leg (just over 360lbs). The weakest of the girls (who just entered the squad this year) is 3 @ 80kg on each leg, but she only weighs about 50kg. Two riders have done the 165kg so far. We have riders who can do sets of standing hops onto 1m+ boxes. The lowest is for one of the girls and is a 70cm box for sets of 8 each leg.
 
The barbell squat is the greatest exercise ever invented because it's working everything, it's efficient and produces results in a short space of time like no other exercise, It's a risky exercise, it's dangerous as hell if performed incorrectly, every muscle under the bar is working to some degree, so it stands to reason that done poorly over time can leave to many injuries, including soft tissue.
To me - it's more of an exercise for the endocrine system.

A good coach would leave the squat out of a S&C program, there is no need for it, I hate the term "functional Training" just another buzz word aimed at the masses to make the professionals appear like experts.

If one has a good structure for squatting, i believe a much lighter weight used in conjunction with the exercises you listed with very high rep's would garner better results.
 
We should talk about the performance of the leg press, and the many mistakes people make when using the leg press, there are some fundamental ones.
 
A good coach would leave the squat out of a S&C program, there is no need for it, I hate the term "functional Training" just another buzz word aimed at the masses to make the professionals appear like experts.

If one has a good structure for squatting, i believe a much lighter weight used in conjunction with the exercises you listed with very high rep's would garner better results.

yes, I agree. What is functional specificity is really the skills you must acquire to be good at a given sport.
As for weight training, I believe you should eliminate the risks, although I recognise that many greater non-lifting athletes enjoy lifting heavy weights.
 
I would suggest that your deadlifts are going back up cos, well, you are deadlifting again. Nothing much to do with your leg exercises.

Leg press is a great exercise to tack on after squats. If you want to get stronger, nothing beats squats for leg strength, simply because it trains your entire body, not just the quads. If you do "real" squats (hip crease below top of knee) then you are training not just quads but hams, glutes, lower back, upper back, inner core, outer core and, to a lesser extent, shoulders and arms.

With leg press all you are ever going to train is quads. Maybe adductors a bit if you use a wide stance.

So, a great accessory exercise after squats.

They can be of use to those who have quad dominant sports such as cycling and speed skating, but again they are more of an accessory to the main training.

If you want to increase leg strength, try heavy squats for low reps followed by light squats for high reps then tack on leg press with light weight for high reps. Try 3-5 sets of 50 reps with one plate each side. That will get dat pump going. And get you closer to God. Don't touch your legs, don't stop during the set and don't rest between sets for any longer than 2 min.

Oh, and leg press is ghay cos is so easy and massages the ego. Ferk. I've seen guys use leg wraps on leg press. I chit you not.
 
I am interested in your tips for leg presses. I lack mobility and have life fitness leg press at highest point to lower plate to. I can barely touch plate and round my back slightly.

Apart from that, I have feet about 30cm apart. I cannot bring thighs to chest; they head out more towards shoulders.

At moment I can only do 11 reps on 300kg, which equates to a 376kg max for me (10 reps 80%), but I am interested to see how my leg power goes up over year given I was much weaker two months ago (standing long 2.2m).
 
the barbell squat does jack shit for a sprinter or cyclist. it encourages to be on the heeles not on the balls of the feet, non-sport specific, not realistic, not tuned in for specific gains in that sport.
 
sorry mate, I had one session on 130kg (4 repw), yet yesterday after heavy leg presses I was repping similar to prior to my last comp.

If you cannot fathom that there is a crossover between different exercises, then that is your problem. First time I ever deadlifted as a youngster I did 6 reps on 185kg just from doing power cleans (and squats and bounding) for a few years.
 
yes, I agree. What is functional specificity is really the skills you must acquire to be good at a given sport.
As for weight training, I believe you should eliminate the risks, although I recognise that many greater non-lifting athletes enjoy lifting heavy weights.

Good point, (appearence of strength) they enjoy lifting heavy weight because they can and do it very well, but tire very quickly..(.fast vs slow twitch ratio), my whole idea of exercise is to not enjoy it, to make myself feel most uncomfortable.
For the athlete, they need to be complete, to be skilled, to be as strong as possible and most important, conditioned.
 
woody, one thing I have never been interested in is lifting heavy for ego.

As I have long argued, for non-lifting athletes only tests that really cannot be disputed are tests for leg power, not how much weight you lift in a round back deadlift or back dominant squat. Most major athletic sports require excellent leg power; I suspect hat is why major American sports (and others) go for functional power tests.
 
They can be of use to those who have quad dominant sports such as cycling and speed skating, but again they are more of an accessory to the main training.



Oh, and leg press is ghay cos is so easy and massages the ego. Ferk. I've seen guys use leg wraps on leg press. I chit you not.

All weight training is accessory to the main training for sports( except barbell sports obviously) not just leg press.

If leg press is gay for massaging the ego what does that make powerlifting.
 
the point of startacus' 2nd post, was to show how leg position means alot when its for athletes.

and when you squat, your legs are not in a position that simulates running or any other natural leg drive. hence the 1 legged leg press they can infact simulate atleast the same plane, and hence build those specific muscle for that activity.

but keep preaching squats, cause squats are the new paleo or crossfit craze
 
I am a great trier when it comes to lifting maximum weights (whether low rep or high rep although I feel I excel at latter), whatever exercise.

TBH, doing a high rep leg press set, with your veins in head feeling like they are going to burst, is also very hard.

I think we should stick to relevance of exercises for sports, non-lifting ones. Issues of toughness over exercises is really just bullshit. Again, TBH, while I used to overheat and chuck in a few Olympic lifting comps in early 1980s, I have never thought there was anything tough about lifting a maximal weight, not when compared to the nerves I got when running out for a football match in my junior days, or even when lining up for a sprint race where fear of being useless made me feel so nervous, at least to the gun went off.

Again, I cannot see any major difference between a leg press or squat for non-lifting sports. It may even be that other exercises are even more relevant for say sprinting. Michael Johnson, world record holder, used to do lunges as his main leg exercise (and his thighs/legs/glutes were pretty powerful).

michaeljohnson.jpg
 
Feet positioning for leg press is crucial yeah? If I have the feet higher up on the footrest the PT said this works the hammies and glutes. If the feet is at the midpoint of the plate then it is the quads.
Wider stance with the feet turned slightly out is for the abductors. Do you guys find this to be the case in your experience?

This is all assuming the lumbar is flat tack against the back cushion to avoid rounded backs.
 


Exercise allows the raw material to be improved.

A good coach identifies duty of care and what the athlete requires in the gym to excel in the position played for a long time, the results speak for themselves.

Only a handful of coaches have got this right IMO.
 
Foot position on the leg-press

I'll write my thoughts on this later, and why this exercise got a bad name.
 
jungnaut, I seem to feel soreness all over thighs. I find I feel uncomfortable when I move feet higher, so I tend to have the foot low but around middle of plate.

SB, I also agree there are few astute coaches; many overtrain their athletes and confuse the balance between training hard and smart. Having said that, I have been confined to gyms mainly for a few years.

Best coaches I saw were at athletics club a few decades ago, with two of them knowing when to push their athletes and when to back off. Not surprisingly, they were both very successful at national level and wise with decades of experience.
 
Foot position on the leg-press

I'll write my thoughts on this later, and why this exercise got a bad name.

Do that please, I still have nerve damage in the left quad from the leg press, felt like an electric shock, 20 years ago and to this day I still have no feeling in it.
 
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