Machines barbells

[Rocket]

Some say machines don't biuld muscle and only barbells can achieve this.

What's the answer?

 

[dave]

Both do, barbells are just better. Machines can have their place though.

 

[Rocket]

Both do, barbells are just better. Machines can have their place though.

Thanks Dave

But what makes barbells better?
And what place does machines have?

Sorry for the question, but this is all I get when I ask the question.

 

[0ni]

Most people agree to using freeweights for your first 1.5-2 years of training then you can start bringing other things in.

I do 5x5 and do 3x8 incline smith instead of 3x8 dips.. got a real problem with my chest and my bench isn't going up anytime soon and it's really been helping with that. I also like to do my barbell rows in the smith machine as of late after weighted chins. Some people swear by hammer strength incline press as a chest builder

I don't think it should be a mainstay of your routine but they are very, very useful. When I am preparing for a cycling competition I will ditch squats in favour of leg press as it's actually BETTER at strengthening the right RoM than squats are (for cycling)

 

[The Hulk]

Anything which can stress and overload your muscles, combined with a suitable diet, can build muscle.

Anyone who says machines don't build muscle and only barbells do, is wrong.

 

[jchen]

Anything which can stress and overload your muscles, combined with a suitable diet, can build muscle.

Anyone who says machines don't build muscle and only barbells do, is wrong.

This.

Look at how big MB is, don't think he's done squat or deadlifting in a long time.

Dude is still jacked though.

 

[TrentZor]

machines and free weights can be used for muscle hypertrophy as long as your adding more load each session. Alot of bodybuilders use both in their training to hit every muscle.

basic knowledge -

muscles grow in response to the degree of loading placed upon them. So, in reality it doesn’t really matter how the loading is placed on the muscle just as long as it is sufficient to stimulate the muscle to be active. If muscle hypertrophy is your only concern it probably doesn’t make a big difference if you use machines or free weights to achieve this goal​

However since the OP posted this in the strength/PL section

taken out of the NCSA manual


There has been studies done to show that free weights in strength/athletes are more beneficial.

- Most people don’t realize that your strength level is not just determined by how big you muscles are, but also by your nervous system. Your nerves adapt to resistance training just like your muscles do. Their structure and function change to allow you to lift more weight.

There are some studies that indicate that strength gain due to free weight training is more beneficial to the performance of daily tasks or athletic activities as well.
- Free weights involve free-form which requires you to use more muscles for a given exercise. For example squatting with a barbell requires you to balance the weight on your back, to balance yourself (so you don’t fall over) and thus requires a lot more muscle activation than a machine exercises. Improvement in bone mineral density has also been
shown to be greater with free weight training6. These studies indicate that there might be some additional benefits in using free weight exercises over machines.​

 

[Rambodian]

My take on it is pretty much what Trentzore has basically stated

Free weights enable you to use a more natural range of motion, this brings in the stabilising muscles etc.

Machines lock a certain motion into place, that is why its so easy to notice the difference between a well designed peice and a pore one.

Both will overload the muscle, but in the end, free weights are a better option for most as you get a better bang for your buck, this equation works for actual money spent, and the exercise itself being performed.

Graeme

 

[walt]

machines have their place. I like doing hamstring curls on the machine. I like leg extensions on the machine. Im sure the shoulder press machine would be good. All machines have their place.

 

[TrentZor]

if your training at home and starting out its better to use free weights in terms of cost savings and space

1. machines cost alot more in the long run to purchase and maintan.
(cables/pulleys all wear out over time and a badly designed one will snap.. One of those home gym stations or wtf they call it on infomercials)
2. Take up more space.
3. Some are limited to how much weight can be used.

 

[Big Mick]

Machines can still build muscle, but I believe they will NOT build 'Real World' Strength, ie gains in strength made will not translate into being able to lift and carry stuff when moving house and working on a construction site for example.

Machines also make you prone to injury, as they force your body into a plane of motion that may not be natural for your body and as such will put strain on joints and muscles that could cause injury, especially with heavy weights.

Smith machine squats for example might build leg strength and muscle but will not build the stabiliser muscles to the same degree as barbell squats, they will also force your body to take an un natural pass when squatting as such promoting injury. Same with Smith machine bench presses, the machine will not allow you to take the correct path of the bar for bench pressing.

Personally I would not use machines other than cable machines that allow a natural movement and engage stabilising muscles, there is no need for using machines in my personal opinion as I can only see negatives and no positives to using them, there is nothing a machine can do that you can not achieve with free weights.

 

[Racket]

Hi I'm the op I couldn't get in on my new name.

But I like what hulk and trent says.

There is a comment here made that barbells work a better ROM, how could that be?

I saw a video that stated, the main purpose of the brain is movement.
I think real world strength is just doing it.

The brain processes the function and records the info and instructs the muscles to move.

But the strength must be there first.

machines and free weights can be used for muscle hypertrophy as long as your adding more load each session. Alot of bodybuilders use both in their training to hit every muscle.

basic knowledge -

muscles grow in response to the degree of loading placed upon them. So, in reality it doesn’t really matter how the loading is placed on the muscle just as long as it is sufficient to stimulate the muscle to be active. If muscle hypertrophy is your only concern it probably doesn’t make a big difference if you use machines or free weights to achieve this goal​

However since the OP posted this in the strength/PL section

taken out of the NCSA manual


There has been studies done to show that free weights in strength/athletes are more beneficial.

- Most people don’t realize that your strength level is not just determined by how big you muscles are, but also by your nervous system. Your nerves adapt to resistance training just like your muscles do. Their structure and function change to allow you to lift more weight.

There are some studies that indicate that strength gain due to free weight training is more beneficial to the performance of daily tasks or athletic activities as well.
- Free weights involve free-form which requires you to use more muscles for a given exercise. For example squatting with a barbell requires you to balance the weight on your back, to balance yourself (so you don’t fall over) and thus requires a lot more muscle activation than a machine exercises. Improvement in bone mineral density has also been
shown to be greater with free weight training6. These studies indicate that there might be some additional benefits in using free weight exercises over machines.​

You sort of contradict yourself I think.

And also, where should I have posted this isnt this the strength training section also?

I think balance is more motor skill, than stabilizer work.

 

[Big Mick]

Mate if the stabiliser muscles are weak, and you go to lift something heavy with your new found strength you will hurt yourself, throw your back out or strain something as you will not have the core strength and stabiliser muscles to support your new found strength.

In fact, according to a recent study by Schwanbeck, overall muscle activation
during free weight Squats is 43% greater than during Smith Squats. This is why you'll build MORE muscle and MORE strength with free weight Squats than with Smith Machine Squats. The difference becomes even greater when using leg presses etc

Train for half an hour with free weights will work every muscle and build stabilisers and core strength building a complete and balanced body with functional strength that you can use in your day to day activities, no need for ab exercises and isolation exercises as these muscles are worked enough during heavy squatting, benching, dead lifting, pressing and rowing, this is not the case with using machines.

Too much use of machines (or lets say incorrect use) will also build the bodies you often see, where people have build the show muscles (pecs and biceps) and they have weak chicken legs, no back and no core strength to speak of, apart from the fact that they look ridiculous, no such issues doing heavy squats, dead lifts, benches, presses and rows, as it will build the body as a whole.

Try doing this after training on machines, you will be in hospital:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeZ-xvezhzo[/ame]

 

[0ni]

The only exercises you need to build "real world" strength are suitcase deadlifts and barbell squats onto a toilet

 

[dave]

Overall as in for all musculature involved Mick? Issue here is Leg Press builds big legs yet it would not activate as much muscle mass overall but would still stimulate your quads significantly.

Now back to the OP. Since you are asking this question your are obviously a newbie so just hit the basic barbell lifts for a while (6 months minimum) and then come back to this.

 

[walt]

The only exercises you need to build "real world" strength are suitcase deadlifts and barbell squats onto a toilet

this.

 

[Big Mick]

Overall as in for all musculature involved Mick?

Yes, overall muscle involvement that is what is needed for useable real world strength that will translate into day to day activities.

It is also a more efficient way to build over all muscle, ie it requires less time but great effort, as with each exercise more muscles are involved.

Especially for a beginner which I consider myself to be at this stage in my training. I have never found a need to use machines as I can not see any positives for them, as matter of fact I believe more than half the equipment in most modern gym should be melted down and made into free weights, and it would be a better place

The only exercises you need to build "real world" strength are suitcase deadlifts and barbell squats onto a toilet

Not sure I understand this post, I have never done barbell squats in the toilet and do not see the point to this post unless I am missing something!

 

[0ni]

I have never done barbell squats in the toilet and do not see the point to this post unless I am missing something!

Never done toilet squats? Do you even lift?

 

[callan]

free weights > machines
and i quote my mate "i can come to yours and workout but i will need to go back to genesis to do the ab machine" i then continued to lecture him about how compound movements work the abs.

 

[dandexter]

I don't personally see why anyone would use a machine over a barbell.