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Mike Mentzer - Frequency less as GROW BIGGER

vader-nator

vader-nator

New member
Have just been re-reading all my Mentzer books etc.

He states that the body has a 300% capacity to grow stronger but only a 50% capacity to recover.

So as we get bigger we need to do less.

A 12" arm contracting at 100% will not tax the overall body as much as an 18" arm contracting maximally.

He even states that the same workout..... as we progressively add more and more weight and grow bigger, with the same number of sets and reps..... the increased weight can lead to overtraining.

At present I am doing this split and am growing as fast as hell.

Day 1 Chest
Day 2 off
Day 3 off
Day 4 Legs
Day 5 off
Day 6 off
Day 7 delts triceps
Day 8 off
Day 9 off
Day 10 Back
Day 11 off
Day 12 off

Who ever told you that muscular decompensation happened after 72 hours is WRONG.

As I get bigger I intend to add more and more rest days between workouts.

LOL

This is really really funny stuff. I am having a ball.

Every single workout is up on the last and I am getting harder and bigger every day.

For decades I have trained much like we all do. 4 to 6 days per week. ( Now seems like a mistake )

I think this is the secret to growing huge at 40.

The biggest thing to overcome is the fear that you are shrinking by not working out all the time and the fact you only feel pumped up 4 days out of every 12.

Thats almost down to training each body part once per fortnight. LOL

You have no idea how cool it is to finally realize that muscles need to repair first, then recover and mend before finally overcompensation (growth ) can happen.

All the workouts we do when still sore or tired from last time are a mistake.

Big drug free muscles are a reality but volume and frequency need to be CUT down as we gain, not increased.

You just need to kill your muscles each workout by giving 100% and then let them replenish, repair, recover and then overcompensate.

Too often we want the muscles to do as we tell them to but the biological reality is different from our wants.

I feel like a drug free mad scientist.

Feel free to disagree with me,..... but in my own reality every workout is being smashed by the last. :):):)
 
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On a previous occasion, I was asked for my opinion re a particular style/system of training. I mentioned then that the proponents of HIT such as the late Mike Mentzer, would look down at the camp who favoured high volume or high frequency etc.

So who is right? They are all right and they are all wrong. Once you stick to a certain way and begin to claim that it's the only way to get big, then the only description that comes to mind for that kind of attitude would be: blindness!

As far as the title of your thread goes; I say it would help tremendously if bodybuilders dropped the old way of thinking and looked at their brothers in the sport of weightlifting and powerlifting. These two sports base their training/recovery/intensity/volume and all else on percentages worked out from knowing the lifter's 1RM.

Finally I'm seeing bodybuilding magazines write about the periodisation principle way of training and the way a bodybuilder can map out a plan of action ahead.

If you want to know why Mike had to say what he did, it's because of this mentality:
you just need to kill your muscles each workout by giving 100% and then let them replenish, repair, recover and then overcompensate.
Click to expand...

Fadi.
 
Quote: Fadi.
So who is right? They are all right and they are all wrong. Once you stick to a certain way and begin to claim that it's the only way to get big, then the only description that comes to mind for that kind of attitude would be: blindness!



Thanks Fadi,

I think the biggest problem we all face is the fact that we have been told that the bigger we get the more volume we need to do in both sets and frequency.

To be honest I think that I may reach burn out after about 6 to 12 weeks and will switch to one of my other systems.

When I spoke to Tom Platz about this he raised a similar point to you and said that change is the key.

I am just sharing my happy discovery. It isn't just a theory at the moment it's actually happening.

Presently blown away by how well I am progressing and how much free time I have at the moment. Plus I am not grumpy, sore or tired all the time.

Muscle memory and minimal volume/ frequency seem to be bringing me back to the good old days.

Not keen to go testing 1RMs as I have a hell of a lot of heavy lifting problems from my crazy days. But am very interested to see the rest recovery volume regime of weight lifers. Do you have it in chart / table format? Thanks heaps Rob

PS.

As you are resident yoda.... My car Rego plate is YODA. I am a Star Wars nerd:)



Fadi said:
On a previous occasion, I was asked for my opinion re a particular style/system of training. I mentioned then that the proponents of HIT such as the late Mike Mentzer, would look down at the camp who favoured high volume or high frequency etc.

So who is right? They are all right and they are all wrong. Once you stick to a certain way and begin to claim that it's the only way to get big, then the only description that comes to mind for that kind of attitude would be: blindness!

As far as the title of your thread goes; I say it would help tremendously if bodybuilders dropped the old way of thinking and looked at their brothers in the sport of weightlifting and powerlifting. These two sports base their training/recovery/intensity/volume and all else on percentages worked out from knowing the lifter's 1RM.

Finally I'm seeing bodybuilding magazines write about the periodisation principle way of training and the way a bodybuilder can map out a plan of action ahead.

If you want to know why Mike had to say what he did, it's because of this mentality:


Fadi.
Click to expand...
 
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vader-nator said:
Presently blown away by how well I am progressing and how much free time I have at the moment. Plus I am not grumpy, sore or tired all the time.

Muscle memory and minimal volume/ frequency seem to be bringing me back to the good old days.

Not keen to go testing 1RMs as I have a hell of a lot of heavy lifting problems from my crazy days. But am very interested to see the rest recovery volume regime of weight lifers. Do you have it in chart / table format? Thanks heaps Rob

PS.

As you are resident yoda.... My car Rego plate is YODA. I am a Star Wars nerd:)
Click to expand...

Hi Rob,

Oh that muscle memory thing. When I mention it, people say they don't buy into it. I've given up. So it's good to see a believer on here.

I wasn't suggesting you go test for 1RM or even attempt anything I wrote above Rob. I'm actually very happy that things are coming along nicely for you; very happy indeed. I'm always inspired by a positive attitude; it gives me more drive, energy, and purpose. So thank you.

As for the way weightlifters train; me and 9 others must've trained a little bit different than most here in Australia back in the early 80s. I'm not 100% sure on that and will be checking with the Olympic weightlifting federation about it. I know that they require an advanced weightlifter to train 4 times a week: Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. I was training 8 times a week. So like I said, I'll get back to you on that one brother...YODA!

All the best Rob.

Fadi.
 
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I'm a huge Mike Mentzer fan, and I love his ideas.

Just be aware that he took speed to get through his sessions, and lots of steroids to recover. How do I know? He told me himself before he died young, as did his brother.

Here is reality.

More muscle has been built in the last 100 years by lifting ever increasing weights on basic exercises three times a week, following a protocol of 3x8 than every other system combined.

Look for examples before 1960, before Dianobol first reared its head. Every routine by every pro has been tainted with AAS since then.

John Grymek had no AAS back in the 30's and 40's, he was massive. Copy what he did, not a drugged up intellectual who was promoting a system to make a buck.

Even the Colorado experiment, using Heavy Duty was tainted, with Casey Viator admitting Arthur Jones gave him AAS, simply to promote his Nautilus equipment.

Arthur Jones was Mike Mentzers mentor, Mike got all his ideas from him.
 
Man it's fun to be here.

Thanks Master Fadi and PTC. So cool to be able to bounce ideas around with guys on the same page. Most trainers aren't usually aware of what the hell I am on about. :):):p

As for bodybuilders pre steroids..... that is another obsession of mine.
HAving done stupid breathing squats with dumbell pullovers ( Arnold sets ) right through my teens I have a rib cage from a different time. Remember the can of protein resting on the upper pec? Thats me!

The whole look has changed and gone weird.

I have a gift and always held my own against roid monsters in the 80's and 90s but these new bloated GH toads of the present are kind of oafish and ewkie to me.

Heres my favourite role model from the past.

Check out Steve Reeves once he was a film star.
How cool is that for almost 60 years ago?
steve-reeves-2.jpg
[/IMG]

Herculese ( Mr UNIVERSE 1950 ) can kick Rambos Butt BIG TIME. LOL
Sylvester_Stallone_1983_250px.jpg
 
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PTC said:
I'm a huge Mike Mentzer fan, and I love his ideas.

Just be aware that he took speed to get through his sessions, and lots of steroids to recover. How do I know? He told me himself before he died young, as did his brother.

Here is reality.

More muscle has been built in the last 100 years by lifting ever increasing weights on basic exercises three times a week, following a protocol of 3x8 than every other system combined.

Look for examples before 1960, before Dianobol first reared its head. Every routine by every pro has been tainted with AAS since then.

John Grymek had no AAS back in the 30's and 40's, he was massive. Copy what he did, not a drugged up intellectual who was promoting a system to make a buck.

Even the Colorado experiment, using Heavy Duty was tainted, with Casey Viator admitting Arthur Jones gave him AAS, simply to promote his Nautilus equipment.

Arthur Jones was Mike Mentzers mentor, Mike got all his ideas from him.
Click to expand...

Love the meat and potatoes above; thank you Markos.


Fadi.
 
vader-nator said:
Man it's fun to be here.


Heres my favourite role model from the past.

Check out Steve Reeves once he was a film star.
How cool is that for almost 60 years ago?
steve-reeves-2.jpg


Herculese ( Mr UNIVERSE 1950 )
Click to expand...

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself here Rob; with only the three of us posting in this thread, I'm beginning to think it's the 40 and over only club here :)!

Whenever I saw Steve in a Hercules movie, I found him to look much bigger than what we see of him in photos. Then it occurred to me; I was comparing the gentleman to the other actors who looked "normal". It's only when you put him beside the bodybuilders of today that he looks "small".

Having said the above, I love looking that "small" and shapely as Steve or rugged as John Grimek. Bring back the old days when it was a feeling of joy to have a relationship with the weights.


Fadi.
 
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Thanks mate!

To quote Tom Platz in The Come Back MR O 1980. When asked if he ever felt like giving it all away..... "It's home. You go away but you always end up coming home."

Great to meet some over 40s with iron in the blood. No school like old school.

:):):)
 
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This isn't an over 40's thread, you guys are just talking about stuff from back in the day that I know nothing about.

It is great to see guys still hitting it hard after so many years, I hope to be at it when I am 40+. Something tells me I have found a life long companion in the iron though.

How is the elbow going Fadi?
 
I liken the physiques of the 50's and 60's to music of the same era, it was raw beautifully presented and elegant compared to physiques and music of today where the studio alters, mimics and distorts sounds to make them appear better than what they are, similar to what drugs do to a bodybuilder.

I'm not 40 either but getting there. :)
 
Well I just hot the big four O today so can I join the club.......guys?......please?

One thing that really sticks in my mind is this; the guys who spend 4-6 sessions in the gym a week doing tons of reps are small and ripped.Some are a little muscular and strong but most aren`t.The guys who spend 1-2 hours a session 3-4 times a week lifting heavy are big,muscular,strong and have incrdible endurance.
 
Happy BIRTHDAY!!!!

Up the intensity, reduce the volume and frequency and away you go!! Time to get results from your workouts!

My gift! LOL

Best

Rob





Zarkov said:
Well I just hot the big four O today so can I join the club.......guys?......please?

One thing that really sticks in my mind is this; the guys who spend 4-6 sessions in the gym a week doing tons of reps are small and ripped.Some are a little muscular and strong but most aren`t.The guys who spend 1-2 hours a session 3-4 times a week lifting heavy are big,muscular,strong and have incrdible endurance.
Click to expand...
 
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Shrek said:
I liken the physiques of the 50's and 60's to music of the same era, it was raw beautifully presented and elegant compared to physiques and music of today where the studio alters, mimics and distorts sounds to make them appear better than what they are, similar to what drugs do to a bodybuilder.

I'm not 40 either but getting there. :)
Click to expand...

HERE HERE. I listened to Black Sabbath today through most of my workout.
 
Thanks Fadi and Shrek!

Life begins at 40,
You wonder why you feel so naughty,
You may be getting on but you can't stop tapping your feet,
Your body sure is willing,
Even though your back is Killing,
You may be forty but you can't stop rockin to the beat.
 
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