New Training Program

I know there are probably quite a few of these threads around. Though I would like some advice/input on my next program.

I have been doing 5 days a week for the past 8 - 10 weeks and am going to go back to 4 days a week. My split will be.

Mon - Chest/Triceps
3 x 8 - 12 DB press
3 x 8 - 12 BB incline press
3 x 8 - 12 Chest Press (Sitting higher, kind of Decline Press)
3 x 15 - DB Flies
3 x 15 - DB Incline Flies
3 x 8 - 12 Scullcrusher
3 x 15 - Dips (or more)
3 x 8 - 12 Tricep Press

Tue - Back/Biceps
3 x 8 - 12 Deadlifts
3 x 8 - 12 Lat Pull Down
3 x 8 - 12 Bent Over Rows
3 x 8 - 12 One Arm Row
3 x 8 - 12 Hyperextensions
3 x 8 - 12 Seated DB Bicep Curl
3 x 8 - 12 Standing DB Hammer Curl
3 x 8 - 12 BB Preacher Curl

Thursday - Legs/Calves
3 x 8 - 12 Squats
3 x 8 - 12 Leg Curl
3 x 8 - 12 Leg Press
3 x 8 - 12 Stiff leg deadlifts
2 x 10 - Leg extensions (Superset with Lunges)
2 x 16 - Lunges (Superset with Leg extensions)

Friday - Shoulders/Abs
3 x 8 - 12 Military Press
3 x 8 - 12 Front Raises
3 x 8 - 12 Side Raises
3 x 8 - 12 Upright Rows
3 x 8 - 12 DB Shrugs
3 x 8 - 12 Standing Calf Raises
3 x 8 - 12 Seated Calf Raises
3 x 8 - 12 Calf Press

I will also be getting two cardio sessions in per week. Probably an early morning one during the week and one on a Saturday.

I have just pulled this routine out of thin air, does anyone have suggestions to improve it? Am I missing anything?

Josh.

One thing to look at Josh when designing a program is to compare the number of sets you do for a bodypart in relation to its size. The breakdown for your program is...in order of largest to smallest muscle group/area.

Back................15 sets
Hams/glutes......14 sets
Quads..............10 sets
Pecs................15 sets
Delts................12 sets
Calves..............9 sets
Triceps.............9 sets
Biceps...............9 sets

You can now analyze your program better. I class shrugs as back work not delts in case your wondering.

Because a split is awkward to truly analyze, its only direct work I'm commenting on. You press twice a week, pull once and squat once.

What would you change Markos?

Would you say that I have the size of bodypart/number of sets pretty much where I would want it? Apart from Quads?

I would pull more than I press, it leads to a far better posture with less injuries in the long run. The pecs are a very small area, 15 sets seems excessive.

I would squat twice a week and eliminate extensions and leg press.

I would also lower the reps on deadlifts to 5 max. As you fatigue, form suffers, injuries happen. Too dangerous on deadlifts.

Ok, very interesting.

I'll have a play around with some of the set tonight. I will be starting this routine next week.

Josh.

Alright I have been thinking a heap about what to do next with my routine. I have been reading a heap around here lately and I am not exactly sure what would be best for me. Currently I am doing a 5 day split routine hitting one body part once a week with a mixture of compounds and isolations, more isolations though.

My goals are slowly shifting, the two things that I want out of this are 1. Strength 2. A good physique. I am lean by nature and I don't want to put on heaps of mass. Yes I want a good proportionate physique. As I have said many times, I like the physique of a 100m sprinter. So a mixture of BB and Strength training is what I am aiming for.

Is this achievable? Or am I trying to do to much? I really want to challenge myself with my strength and try and get as far as possible with the strength standard that has been discussed around here of late.

So, I am open to hear opinions about this. PTC guys would surely be able to give some insight into strength training, though I still want to build the physique that I want as well. Am I asking to much? I know Fadi has been talking about getting mixed up in what we want, I guess I am looking for a BB/Strength Training mix.

I was thinking of a 4 day program of the following.

Day 1. Push
Day 2. Pull
Day 3. Rest
Day 4. Legs
Day 5. Rest
Day 6. Compound Day
Day 7. Rest

On my rest days I will be throwing some cardio in. Now I have not gone as far as to work out my exact excersizes I will be doing, but does it seem I am on the right track? I am open to any opinions here as my goals are changing and I would like to do the best I can to achieve them.

Thanks guys,

Josh.

As I recall, you have about the same upper-body strength as me, so I feel qualified to give advice here: I don't think it's time to have a split routine.

I say, continue with a full-body routine of compound lifts. For the "sprinter's body" you'll want to emphasise legs, to do some explosive compound lifts, and to actually sprint.

Is there a 400m running track nearby? Use it. Sports ovals are usually 550m around, you can use them, too. Do sprints for 100m, jog the other 300m, etc. A few cycles of that and you'll be burning.

Thanks Aaron, I have a few questions.

Why are you not advising a split routine? What level do you think a lifter has to have to move onto a split routine? I have had a varying degree of success with split routines, though I know that I have also been messing around with some fluffy little excersizes too and I want to take my training in a bit of a different direction.

For the record I have been lifting for 1.5 years, and about the last 6 months have got my nutrition sorted. BP = 1.5BW (110kg) Mil Press = .9BW (70kg) Squat = 1.55 BW (120kg) DeadLift = 1.8BW (140kg) PC = 60kg need lots of work on technique. Only played around with that weight. All lifts are not 1RM, most vary between 4 - 6 reps

Since we have been bulking a bit and not touching cardio we have not been doing any running etc. We will do a bit of sprint training and HIIT type stuff in the coming months.

Oh okay, I recalled wrongly - you're much stronger than me. I think - again, you're at a higher level than me, so these are my unqualified thoughts - at those lifts you can benefit from a split routine, yes - depending on your goals. If your main goal is size, then a split routine will be good.

However, you put "strength" first, and a "good physique" second, and of course a "good physique" is not necessarily a bigger one. If strength is genuinely first, then that's best built up by more heavy compound lifts, not a split.

If size were first, then splits with 60-80% of 1RM for 8-12 reps would be traditional. But you mention a "sprinter's body". To get a sprinter's body, train like a sprinter: they do explosive compound lifts and sprint. In fact, why not join your local athletics club? You don't actually want to be a sprinter? Just because you're in the club doesn't mean you have to compete, you lift heavy but don't join powerlifting comps.

I think you have to be very clear about your goals, exactly what you want to achieve.

Kyle Aaron said:

However, you put "strength" first, and a "good physique" second, and of course a "good physique" is not necessarily a bigger one. If strength is genuinely first, then that's best built up by more heavy compound lifts, not a split.

I think you have to be very clear about your goals, exactly what you want to achieve.

Click to expand...

You are spot on there mate.

I think I am still trying to sort out my goals as I have been influenced by some who really put an emphasis on strength around here. But what I have listed is pretty much spot on what I want.

I want to get as close to achieving the strength standards that Markos posted up as well as having the physique that I have said. That is my combined goal. I know what you are saying about competing, but I want to do this for fun first and foremost. I love this shit. Maybe I will have a go in an amatuer lifting comp one day, until then I am happy to do it just for me.

When I say a "100m sprinter's body" I am simply using that as an example. I understand where you are coming from, but I am really talking about the size they have as compared to a BBer. It is to give an example of what I want to achieve looks wise. As for the strength, this has always been important to me as well, but now it is gaining some momentum and I want to get as strong as I can.

Is strength and a good physique achievable at the same time? I think so.

Strength and physique is 100% achievable at the same time, particularly if you have some ectomorph in you. It will be harder for your lard ass endomorph. Lucky you!

The good news is its really only a matter of big compound lifts (squat, bench, dead, military press, bent rows, powercleans) and lots of food. Milk and peanut butter sandwiches will work really well.

Thanks Nick. I just finished of two pieces of bread with peanut butter, a banana and protein shake. I am on my whey! haha

In all seriousness though, what training do you do weekly Nick? You're a tough bastard.

Here is the reason I tell lifters that a full body workout is better than a split routine.

The exercises that are responsible for making a lifter big and strong are

Squats
Bench
Deadlifts
Press
Clean

These can all be done in under an hour. By doing this, you can do all the exercises that are responsible in making us big and strong 3 times a week, instead of 1-2 times a week.

Therefore we wont need any "filler" in our program, reducing the ammount of time we have to recover from our full body workouts.

Hope that makes sense.

I should also point out why Muscle & Fiction and Hustlemag keep promoting all these super programs every month.

What the f u c k are they going to write about if they tell us the truth? An article on the program I just put up, nothing to write about next month, no magazine sales, no adds from rip off supplement companys, no industry.

Just big strong muthaf u c k e r s roaming the earth picking up heavy shit.

Markos, wake up, wake up, your dreaming again

HAHA.

OK, I am going to give that a shot. Those 5 lifts, 3 times a week. I am going to set some goals along the way and the bigger picture will be to tackle as many of those standards as possible.

Far out, I can't imagine how I would feel after doing those 5 compounds in a row. I've never squatted and deadlifted on the same day.

I will add a bit of cardio for some good measure. Now, you are probably going to roast me here, I don't mind ;-), it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. But would it be detrimental to put in a day where I do a few excersizes that I enjoy? If I am busting my guts trying to keep the weight going up I may not even be able to as I'll be sore.

Example -

Bicep - BB curls
Tricep - Some form tricep press
Shoulder - Front and side raises
Calves - Calf raises
Quads - Lunges, extensions??
Abs - various leg lifts and cable crunches
Back - Rows

Cheers,

Josh.

those big 5 compound lifts make up the core of my training and i honestly couldnt imagine doing anything less now, i dont think sitting on machines for an hour in a commercial gym would even tax me anymore.

your body will get used to it just make sure you eat and sleep accordingly.

By all means, do whatever exerciseses you enjoy, just understand that you are cutting into recovery and doing little to your strength and size, with the exception of

Bent rows
BB curl

Cool. I'll be starting this next week. I am even going to do it at the same time I stop drinking Alcohol for a while. Sheesh, what is getting into me?

As for machines at gyms, I haven't used them since the start. Tonight will be my last shoulder/trap routine for a while it's one of my favourites i'll be sure to enjoy it. haha

Ok so i will do the 5x5.

Squat 5x5 (2 warm up, 2 working)
Bench 5x5 (2 warm up, 2 working)
Deadlift 5x5 (2 warm up, 2 working)
Press 5x5 (2 warm up, 2 working)
Clean 5x5 (2 warm up, 2 working)

I'll do that Monday, Tuesday and Friday.

On Tuesday and Thursday I will be going for a run.

Going from 5 days a week to 3 days a week at the gym will feel weird. I'll probably do a bit on a weekend still. I am going to do it for 8 weeks.

You failed maths...right lol....2 + 2 = 5

Josh, I reckon those that fail on the 5x5 are those that dont do 5 work sets.

Nick has been doing 5 work sets and his bench has gone from 110kg to 145kg in around 18 weeks.

Haha, I am an Accountant too.
I will do 1 warm up and 5 working sets.

How many times a week do the guys at PTC train each week? I am still thinking of doing a 4th day.

Now I don't know much about the Power Clean. I have only played around with them and watched a few vids on youtube and I can see there certainly is a technique required. Any tips?