Asymmetric gains

[iwakura]

I've always been under the impression that you should roughly aim to get your standing overhead press (no push pressing or jerking or w/e) around 70% of max bench.

While I understand that it's not perfect and doesn't apply to everyone, I still feel like I'm missing out on something....

At the end of 2012 my bench stood at 120kg and my OHP at 90kg.
Last Saturday I max benched and hit 130 and just today I hit 102.5 OHP which leaves it much closer to 80% (not trying to get caught up in numbers but just saying...).

Could the difference be because I've got better relative shoulder strength? I don't know how to bench? Or is there some kind of asymmetry in strength that I'm not addressing in order to max my bench?

 

[McKwl]

Are you a lot taller than you are broad (I mean, more than average ratio)? If so, then well, same here, and I also OHP closer to bench than many people, it seems.

So I'd say it's a fundamental build (body structure, like bones f'rex) thing.

Though now that I'm concentrating more on bench, the numbers are shifting that way... hm, not totally sure now I think about it some more. Could be training methods too. Or form - you might be right there.

 

[0ni]

I think that's a silly idea

 

[NAPARM]

No offence but who cares? People are always going to favour certain lifts due to certain factors. As long as they are both going up that's all that matters imo.

 

[iwakura]

No offence but who cares? People are always going to favour certain lifts due to certain factors. As long as they are both going up that's all that matters imo.

haha none taken! should just be happy i'm making gains atm then. just thought it might have meant i was weaker in a certain area and if so i should rectify it

 

[Goosey]

No offence but who cares? People are always going to favour certain lifts due to certain factors. As long as they are both going up that's all that matters imo.

That's refreshing

 

[0ni]

No offence but who cares? People are always going to favour certain lifts due to certain factors. As long as they are both going up that's all that matters imo.

exactly

 

[nazzysmith]

Yeah man...

Don't over analyse your lifts with this stuff...

Just LIFT!!!!!

Incidently that's a very nice OHP.... Congratulations!!!!!

 

[vonfram88]

The overhead press is an anterior deltoid and triceps movement. If you want to bench more, there are better exercises. One such exercise is bench press.

For better all round shoulder development (balance and joint integrity) the press behind the neck is probably more effective as it has stronger involvement of the medial lobe of the deltoid.

We all know to balance out our pushing with pulling and we know how to train our posterior deltoids and upper back, but often the medial part of the delt gets neglected.

It is very important to have some development there. Upright rows do engage the medial delt somewhat, but the press behind neck is a superior option. Strict overhead Dumbell presses without a backward lean have a similar effect to a press behind next with the barbell.

Awesome benchers like Kazmier, Arcidi and Layne used the press behind neck extensively. That was in the era before multiply shirts when the lifter relied upon their musculoskeletal strength to stop their shoulders from flying apart.

 

[0ni]

Upright rows do dick-all for my delts and only train my traps
I am a big fan of the behind the neck push press but even though my shoulders are pretty decent for my size, my bench sucks cock. That feel when no triceps

 

[strong enough?]

The idea that you can balance the shoulder by balancing pushing vs pulling movements is a bit misplaced if you just row and chin. Let's think about this a bit more carefully.

Bench press, deadlifting and squatting, properly, involves retraction and depression of the shoulder blade.

What do think your shoulder blades are doing with rows? Retraction and depression.

A row is assistance for bench press - because it builds upper back strength in the exact manner it is required to assist a big bench press, or deadlift for that matter.

It is not a remedial exercise to balance out the musculature of the shoulder. In fact, if there is an imbalance, it only serves to emphasise it.

IF you want to balance out the shoulder, you need a movement that emphasis upward rotation of the scapulae and work the serratus anterior and upper traps. Examples are: push-ups (load them up with chains/bands), face-pulls, overhead shrugs. A shoulder press with an emphasis on shrugging at the top also balances out the bench press.

 

[Goosey]

I don't really think there is much to worry about here on this forum.

But mostly, the weekend lifting hobbyist will do this.

A template mostly made up of...

Leg extension
Leg press
Pec dec
Bench press
Seated press
Lat pulldown with wider than shoulder grip
Curls

All these opening up the shoulder capsule, which leads to injury.

Then, when their shoulder is screaming, they self diagnose and attempt to rehab with rotator cuff exercises, further exasperating the issue.

 

[jj80]

I thought the bench press held the shoulder blades retracted by virtue of a hell of a lot of weight pinning them against the bench in that position (without the need to use your upper back). Hence the requirement to do rows and exercise the upper back. At least, this is what a physio told me....

 

[judgey]

Pec dec is disgusting for the shoulders.. or at least it feels like it's pulling my shoulders in a way that it shouldn't. I won't touch it unless desperate.

 

[strong enough?]

I thought the bench press held the shoulder blades retracted by virtue of a hell of a lot of weight pinning them against the bench in that position (without the need to use your upper back). Hence the requirement to do rows and exercise the upper back. At least, this is what a physio told me....

You should be actively pulling the shoulder blades back and puffing up the chest. The lats and traps should all be tight to the point of discomfort. The descent of the bar should also be controlled by the lats. The whole "breaking the bar" and tucking the elbows cues are all about achieving this. This applies whether you bench with a flat back or an arch.

I actually get a good lat workout from bench training now - particularly when I use long pauses on the chest. But equally, the more you can row/chin, the better you can keep a stable position in the bench.

 

[Goosey]

I'm not too sure about this whole pinching the shoulder blades together thing

For shoulder stability the shoulder blade need to move, pinning or pinching will lead to trouble either now, later or never depending on the the persons structure.

 

[Goosey]

You should be actively pulling the shoulder blades back and puffing up the chest. The lats and traps should all be tight to the point of discomfort. The descent of the bar should also be controlled by the lats. The whole "breaking the bar" and tucking the elbows cues are all about achieving this. This applies whether you bench with a flat back or an arch.

I actually get a good lat workout from bench training now - particularly when I use long pauses on the chest. But equally, the more you can row/chin, the better you can keep a stable position in the bench.

That's all in your head

 

[judgey]

That's all in your head

Zombie zombie zombie ei ei ...

 

[0ni]

My lats feel like they are going to cramp when i am benching
Right at the tie in to my upper spine

 

[jj80]

You should be actively pulling the shoulder blades back and puffing up the chest. The lats and traps should all be tight to the point of discomfort. The descent of the bar should also be controlled by the lats. The whole "breaking the bar" and tucking the elbows cues are all about achieving this. This applies whether you bench with a flat back or an arch.

I actually get a good lat workout from bench training now - particularly when I use long pauses on the chest. But equally, the more you can row/chin, the better you can keep a stable position in the bench.

Disagree on traps, traps pull blades up, direction should be 'down and back'.

What are you benching now to get a workout of your lats? Maybe I'm not doing enough... My worksets are usually 100-110kg at 110kg bodyweight, 130kg max 1rm (touch and go) as sig says.