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Agreed, I personally think all those bar's are a gimmick (except the bulldog bar and similar bars that are just really strong normal bars). If Andrey Malanichev can reach a 450kg raw squat without bloody bow bars, bandbells bar and cambered bar, then clearly I won't need them. I could be wrong, but from what I have read and seen him and those strong russain don't use them and squat more raw then 90% of the westside guys do with double ply.