• Keep up to date with Ausbb via Twitter and Facebook. Please add us!
  • Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

    The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.

    Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.

Sets and reps confusion

T

turbodragon

Guest
Ok, so I've been training on and off for about 4-5 years now and onyl recently decided to take it more seriously. But something just occured to me with regards to reps and sets.

Background info:

Take for example the flat bench press I would do:

Set 1 (warmup set): 30kg x 12 reps
Set 2: 50kg x 10 reps
Set 3: 60kg x 8 reps
Set 4 (very close to failure set): 70kg x 6 reps

If I had a spotter, I would try for 80kg x 6 reps (or 8 reps of 70kg)


But I have begun to notice poeple who would do 3 or 4 sets (like me), except instead of increasing weights with each set, instead they begin with their normal warmup weight and then ramp it up to 60kg (for example) and do the 60kg for the remaining sets, whilst maintaining 8-10 reps for each of those sets. In other words:

Set 1: 30kg x 12 reps
Set 2: 60kg x 8 reps
Set 3: 60kg x 8 reps
Set 4: 60kg x 8 reps
Now my question is, are both methods acceptable? Or is one of us going about it the wrong way?


Cheers.
 
in the scheme of things, for example in 5 years time....both methods are pretty equal.

i like the pyramid approach that you've been doing. but the 2nd way you said of doing a workout is legit, that way could be done more for a strength trainee, who wants to work at a certain percentage (say 85% of their 1RM), what do you want to achieve? size, strength, fitness, something else?
 
What we know is regardless of how many sets you it's the last rep where changes are going to happen.
Some say one set is optimal, three is too much.
Two things we need to consider:
time as a factor and self evident truth
the o ly way to figure this out for yourself is to judge your progress by measurable strength increases; when you can perform the same number of rep's with twice as much resistance, then Your muscles will be at least twice as big as they were at the start.
An advanced trainee does not need more exercise than a beginner he simply needs harder exercise, in direct proportion to the differential in strength.
An advanced man will be able to stand more exercise- but it is not a requirment and will almost always lead to a situation where additional progress comes to a halt or slows to a snails pace.
Experiment try all forms of training, have fun with it, we have plenty of time.
I think I would have at least done 50,000 workouts to date in that time you get to know what works for you.
 
Silverback said:
What we know is regardless of how many sets you it's the last rep where changes are going to happen.
Some say one set is optimal, three is too much.
Click to expand...


i really fail to see how one set could be optimal & how three sets are too much! For me, consistent progress happens when i work in the sphere of 3-5 sets.

think of it like this, if you can do 15 chin up's at a body weight of 65kg, then 15 chin up's when you weigh 70kg, you've grown some good muscle. i think i've just derailed the thread...ooops
 
Well like I said, regardless of how many sets one does- it's that last hard painful rep where most change will take place.
All the othe rep's leading up to that final gut renching one are just warm- up rep's
but that's my opinion and opinions vary.
 
Silverback said:
Well like I said, regardless of how many sets one does- it's that last hard painful rep where most change will take place.
All the othe rep's leading up to that final gut renching one are just warm- up rep's
but that's my opinion and opinions vary.
Click to expand...

I've read about this logic long long time ago now. Whilst it sounds great on paper, in real life it takes on a different shape. Based on the logic and reasoning of this arguments, which I believe the late Mentzer spoke of; the rest-pause principle was developed. As you know, the rest pause's aim is to keep the lifter in that "growth zone". I think from memory Platz spoke of the "warm-up" reps leading to the "real" productive rep at the end also.

Every system is wonderful and great and obviously has its merit. However bodybuilders being bodybuilders, most simply don't know when to apply the breaks and end up smashing their body right into the wall we call plateau.

The reason for that is not many if any bodybuilder takes the nervous system (which is the driving force behind any muscle contraction) into consideration when designing a bodybuilding program. There are some bodybuilding principles that would drive one's CNS into the ground in no time when done continuously. Principles such as descending sets, forced reps, rest-pause, taking each set to failure and beyond etc. All these principles place the CNS in a very vulnerable position and eventually take their toll on the bodybuilder through different manifestations; injury, boredom, lack of motivation, progress halt, lack of appetite, etc.

In addition, to say that those reps which lead to that “productive rep” are basically warm ups would be to fail to recognise volume of training as a factor of progressive loading. Please do not forget, we can not talk about muscles without taking our nervous system into consideration.

Did you know that a muscle cell recovers 5 to 6 times faster than a nerve cell? By knowing scientific facts like this, one is placed in a better position in designing a MuscleBuilding program.

So in conclusion; variety, balance, and awareness of the totality of what is going on are the central theme to massive muscles.

I'll leave it here for now. Thank you for reading.


Fadi.
 
Last edited:
Fadi,
I've never really read anything of Mentzers only to know he had a wonderful physique an argument is; did he get like that because of his choice of ideals or was it in spite of it, no one will know, as with all it's the same story- opinions will vary.

But at the end of the day intensity is subjective but results are tangible.

The method I talk about is as old as dirt.
I don't believe CNS can burnout it's a mindset.

Oh - and the sort music playing at the time.

Only my experience it all I can reflect on but I do believe it all works there is no secret here.
 
Last edited:
Strength is built at the gym, muscle in the kitchen.

If you have concerns about recovery and burnout, make sure you are eating and sleeping enough.

The body will adapt to the workload.

I have clients who struggle to recover from 3 full body workouts a week, and others who train twice a day, and still keep improving.

Guess which ones make the most progress?

Fadi is right and so is Kong. Find out what youre capable of recovering from, dont blindly follow another mans advice.

I get to witness whether my clients are recovering, and I adjust their workloads.

Thats why a journal is very important in the early years, simply going through it every 6 months and look for progress, then check what you were doing when you made the most progress.
 
on e thing i have recently noticed with me is that when i stop doing squats progress stops. as soon as i increase my workload with squats everything else is good.
 
Silverback said:
The method I talk about is as old as dirt.
Click to expand...
Which method is that?

I don't believe CNS can burnout it's a mindset.
Click to expand...

Is that based on your opinion or something else? There are thousands of bodybuilders who are hitting the wall everyday; do we tell them that it's all in their head and to get over it or is there more to it than that do you think?

If you read my post again with a critical eye this time, you may find that I was not simply stating my opinion. You may also find that I was not knocking any system or principle of training. I chose my words carefully; please do read them again. Thank you.


Fadi.
 
Fadi, you replied to what I wrote, my thoughts on the topic of this thread, you mentioned Mentzner, I told you I had never read anything relating to his thoughts- I assumed you were saying it was his idea?

CNS burnout?
I have no idea, I don't think anyone does.
A person who tells you that they know everything does not know the questions.
It's all theory as far as I'm concerned.
I think the body is evolved enough to deal with this, I mean when a muscle contracts it's not using all it's power.
Don't treat me as though I'm one of your students Fadi, we are just two gentlemen voicing our thoughts.
 
Silverback said:
Fadi, you replied to what I wrote, my thoughts on the topic of this thread, you mentioned Mentzner, I told you I had never read anything relating to his thoughts- I assumed you were saying it was his idea?

CNS burnout?
I have no idea, I don't think anyone does.
A person who tells you that they know everything does not know the questions.
It's all theory as far as I'm concerned.
I think the body is evolved enough to deal with this, I mean when a muscle contracts it's not using all it's power.
Don't treat me as though I'm one of your students Fadi, we are just two gentlemen voicing our thoughts.
Click to expand...

What gave you the impression that I was running a school here; and perchance you were on of the students?

Don't worry about reading what I wrote anymore; just read what you wrote above and that would suffice I'm sure.


Fadi.
 
Fadi, enough.
We all lift weights, we all enjoy what we do.
Who cares how we do it.

I blows me away that people on these Internet forums get so upset if someone thinks a little different, what does it matter?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top