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Supplement confusion !
- Thread starter gstar73
- Start date
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- Tags
- confusion supplement
I should also note that i will not speak to any weight trainer through PM without at least 4 years lifting experience regarding PH's. This is serious training and you must have a solid diet. PH's are not as Shrek points out something to be taken lightly and yes the legal ramifications are there as well.
AZZA
AZZA
Yeah, i i have been body building for 5 years atleast, i was thinking of using jungle warfare
Tell me your training and diet. Be specific. What are your goals? Do you no what PCT is?
AZZA
Kyle Aaron
Active member
I wonder why people pay big cash for the protein supplements. The cheapest protein is milk powder. It's 35% by weight protein, and costs $6/kg in the supermarket (cheaper in bulk from wholesalers). Thus, $17/kg of protein. Even $10/kg steak is $40/kg for its protein. How about the powders? Dearer, I bet.
I am sceptical about supplements for any but bodybuilding or powerlifting professionals. I think that supps make only a few percent difference to your performance at most. I think this because when you look at people's performance from one training session to another, it varies by up to 10%. Whether they had a good or bad sleep the night before, whether they had a big lunch and then tried to workout on that full stomach, their mood, the temperature in the gym, all these things mean that the person who can do 5x 100kg today might only manage 4x 100kg or 5x 90kg tomorrow. And these people, some take supps, some don't. So whatever the difference supps make must be smaller than those other factors - only a few percent.
From talking to people in health food stores, most supps are sold to people new to training. Basically they want something that'll give them quick and impressive results.
People new to training get quick and impressive results if they work hard and eat well, and don't if they don't. If they took supps they'll often attribute their success or lack of it to the supps.
Way I see it, supps are like psychology. Why is it that world records in sports are set at world competitions, and not at other times? They had the same body last week, why didn't they set a record then? Psychology.
Think of the four minute mile, long held to be impossible. Then a guy did it, and within a year a dozen other guys had done it, too. Same for the 1,000lb bench press. Did everyone's bodies change wildly after the news of the record broken? Did they learn a brilliant new technique? No, it was psychology.
One guy runs the 100m in 9.81sec, the other in 9.85sec. Is the 0.04sec difference really their bodies or technique? I doubt it. It's the mind. When Flo-Jo set her sprint world record she was asked how she felt, she replied, "I would have run faster if I'd been racing Carl Lewis."
So psychology gives an edge to the people already on the top, making a difference of a percent or two in performance. I think it's likely supplements are the same.
For me, an untrained runner doing 100m in (say) 13.55 seconds, psychology and supplements, making only a few percent difference - proper runners will still leave me in their dust, and anyway from one day to another I might run 14.06 or 13.40, depending as above on my sleep, mood, etc. But for the highly-trained guys doing it very consistently in 10.60 seconds, psych and supps could make the difference between reaching the final or not.
So I think it's all about where you're at in your training. And for the vast majority of us, it'll be a very very small thing compared to all the rest. Before worrying about supps I would make sure that my weights, cardio, diet and rest were absolutely perfect. How many of us can say that?
I am sceptical about supplements for any but bodybuilding or powerlifting professionals. I think that supps make only a few percent difference to your performance at most. I think this because when you look at people's performance from one training session to another, it varies by up to 10%. Whether they had a good or bad sleep the night before, whether they had a big lunch and then tried to workout on that full stomach, their mood, the temperature in the gym, all these things mean that the person who can do 5x 100kg today might only manage 4x 100kg or 5x 90kg tomorrow. And these people, some take supps, some don't. So whatever the difference supps make must be smaller than those other factors - only a few percent.
From talking to people in health food stores, most supps are sold to people new to training. Basically they want something that'll give them quick and impressive results.
People new to training get quick and impressive results if they work hard and eat well, and don't if they don't. If they took supps they'll often attribute their success or lack of it to the supps.
Way I see it, supps are like psychology. Why is it that world records in sports are set at world competitions, and not at other times? They had the same body last week, why didn't they set a record then? Psychology.
Think of the four minute mile, long held to be impossible. Then a guy did it, and within a year a dozen other guys had done it, too. Same for the 1,000lb bench press. Did everyone's bodies change wildly after the news of the record broken? Did they learn a brilliant new technique? No, it was psychology.
One guy runs the 100m in 9.81sec, the other in 9.85sec. Is the 0.04sec difference really their bodies or technique? I doubt it. It's the mind. When Flo-Jo set her sprint world record she was asked how she felt, she replied, "I would have run faster if I'd been racing Carl Lewis."
So psychology gives an edge to the people already on the top, making a difference of a percent or two in performance. I think it's likely supplements are the same.
For me, an untrained runner doing 100m in (say) 13.55 seconds, psychology and supplements, making only a few percent difference - proper runners will still leave me in their dust, and anyway from one day to another I might run 14.06 or 13.40, depending as above on my sleep, mood, etc. But for the highly-trained guys doing it very consistently in 10.60 seconds, psych and supps could make the difference between reaching the final or not.
So I think it's all about where you're at in your training. And for the vast majority of us, it'll be a very very small thing compared to all the rest. Before worrying about supps I would make sure that my weights, cardio, diet and rest were absolutely perfect. How many of us can say that?
ok the version that is at a shop has got
17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17-ol in it...
Weak ATD? that cannot be natural.
Suggested Retail $70.99
How to Stack This Product?
Product Label here
Jungle Warfare™ 90 caps
LEAN MASS CATALYST FORMULA
Jungle Warfare™ combines very carefully engineered herbal compounds that have been selected for their specific effect on key components of the anabolic process within the body. These specific ingredients work synergistically to impact the body’s anabolic pathways and optimize lean muscle acquisition without hormonal down-regulation. ALR Industries has created a unique proprietary extraction process that results in high-potency yields of the unique AR agonists and pro-hypertrophic substrates found in each of these herbs. The result is a synergistic Pro-Hypertrophic Matrix from ALR Industries that guarantees results!WHAT IS JUNGLE WARFARE™ FORMULATED TO SUPPORT?
- <LI class=style8> Controls estrogen <LI class=style8> Supports lean mass acquisition & retention <LI class=style8> Increases utilization of free testosterone <LI class=style8> Provides favorable nutrient repartitioning
- Provides HPTA modulation
JUNGLE WARFARE™ CONTAINS:
- Proprietary Mormordica Chirantia Extract- Using our specific extraction process, we were able to utilize the insulinogenic and non-androgenic AR agonistic fractions unique to our proprietary extract of mormordica chirantia. By doing so, we can support the hypertrophic event in lean tissue by these two most important mechanisms.
- Conjugated (-) 3,4-divanillyl-tetrahydrofuran- This compound is the result of a series of extraction processes performed upon nettle root. This compound has demonstrated a positive effect on total testosterone to free/active testosterone ratio. Many know of nettle root for its anti-aromatase capacity and studies show its positive effects upon BHP in men.
- 17a-methyl-5a-dehydro-etiocholane-4,6-dien-3-one-17-ol- This substance is a natural non-androgenic metabolite of ATD with improved oral bioavailability. It is an estrogen modulating metabolite that controls, but not annihilates estrogen. This results in optimal muscle growth and a positive impact on libido, while limiting the negative side effects.
- Proprietary Conjugated Coleonol Extract- This extract supports AR receptor health to keep receptors operating properly for maximal hypertrophic-type receptor health.
Jungle Warfare™ is a non-hormonal Pro-Hypertrophic, herbal AR agonist, which acts as an estrogen and free testosterone-modulating compound. The active components of Jungle Warfare™ work in synergy to support lean mass acquisition and fat loss. Whether used alone or in combination with other ALR Industries’ muscle building or fat loss products, we are confident that you will enjoy the results you earn while using Jungle Warfare™!
Q: Is Jungle Warfare™ a pro-hormone?
A: No, Jungle Warfare™ is not a pro-hormone. Pro-hormones are suppressive to your body’s natural testosterone levels, have an array of side effects and do not result in permanent gains. How many times have you used pro-hormones and made substantial gains only to lose them all after you ceased its use? This is where Jungle Warfare™ comes into play! Jungle Warfare™ will increase your free testosterone levels while controlling your estrogen levels. Jungle Warfare™ is clean and efficient, whereas pro-hormones storm the castle and leave abruptly taking your gains with it. What does Jungle Warfare™ mean to you? No bloat, no suppression of your natural test levels, quality muscle gains and no unwanted post cycle side effects.
Q: Do I need liver support while using Jungle Warfare™?
A: There is nothing in Jungle Warfare™ that is inherently taxing on the liver. However, we believe that you need to support your liver due to environmental factors. If your general health is compromised, your body will not run efficiently. If your spark plugs don’t work then nitrous boosters won’t help, your body is no different.
Q: Can women take Jungle Warfare™?
A: Yes, women can take Jungle Warfare™. Jungle Warfare™ can be a great product for women, if they are looking for that lean, muscular, yet still feminine look. It even stacks nicely with PRO-ANABOL™. However, we strongly advise a slightly lower dosage (1 capsule/day) for women than suggested to men and to take at least 2-weeks off after taking Jungle Warfare™ for 2-weeks. At this recommended dosage, there should be no signs of any adverse side effects with women like masculinization type effects.
Q: Will Jungle Warfare™ negatively affect the HPTA in men, and thus require a PCT protocol?
A: No, Jungle Warfare™ will not negatively affectthe HPTA in men.Plus, Jungle Warfare™ can be used as part of an extensive PCT regimen and keep the body anabolic while the HPTA is in recovery mode so to speak.
Q: Is Jungle Warfare™ a steroid & could it cause one to fail a drug test?
A: Jungle Warfare™ is neither a steroid nor a pro-steroid though it does contain a steroidal Aromatase inhibitor similar to Aromasin or Arimidex. All tested organizations have different testing procedures and guidelines, so we cannot make an all-inclusive statement. However, many do test for ratios including free testosterone, or epitestosterone to estrogen ratios. One of Jungle Warfare’s™ main goals/effects is the sharp increase in free testosterone, thus making the body’s main androgenic hormone more bioavailable and useable. Again, this is accomplished through making the body work more efficiently from the inside out, not from the outside in as with common pro-hormones or steroids. This reason coupled with the slight decrease in circulating estrogens could inevitably cause one to have a false drug test.
WARNING: NOT FOR USE BY INDIVIDUALS UNDER THE AGE OF 21 YEARS. DO NOT USE IF PREGNANT OR NURSING. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. Do NOT consume this product if you have a medical condition and/or taking any prescription medication. Do not exceed recommended serving. Discontinue use and call a physician or licensed qualified health care professional immediately if you experience rapid heartbeat, dizziness, severe headache, or other similar symptoms.
These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, or prevent any disease.
J
Josh_GTiR
Guest
Interesting information there.
No. 1 concern should be your diet. Supplements are just used to top up your nutrition. I use a Protein Powder by Optimum Nutrition which is $150 for 4.7kg. I like the taste and it has a good mix of BCAA's in it as well as some glutamine too.
I have tried a few of the pre workout drinks. They sure have an effect, but I have decided I don't need them and surely don't need them draining my pocket. I have one that I am using now, though it does not contain caffeine either.
No. 1 concern should be your diet. Supplements are just used to top up your nutrition. I use a Protein Powder by Optimum Nutrition which is $150 for 4.7kg. I like the taste and it has a good mix of BCAA's in it as well as some glutamine too.
I have tried a few of the pre workout drinks. They sure have an effect, but I have decided I don't need them and surely don't need them draining my pocket. I have one that I am using now, though it does not contain caffeine either.
Read it already but forums are saying that is bulls**t. But if you say that compound is herbal its herbal i guess. It just looks a little bit shady.....almost like a methylated Novadex XT or 6-OXO (ATD). As you noted before alot of forums would speculate that the jungle warfare that i can get is a weak steroid or PH in it but then no one proves it with scientific background. So can you safely say that i could cycle this product (the jungle warfare with that compound that i listed previously) with Novadex XT as a OTC PCT? and throw in an awesome product (one of my favourite) T-bol to sustain test levels and it also has resveratrol which can act as a natural Anti-estrogen. Ofcourse with a strict diet and workout regime (the most important)
Yeah, i know that the stronger it is the more sides come with it. I think that comes with anything nowadays! And yes i know what a Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) is....Clomid and Nolvadex etc also a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators) Take it after a cycle of PH or DS to decrease high estrogen. All these things are impossible to get without a script. I am aware of Gyno, bitch tits, pimples, increased aggression, loss of hair, sore bones, back pumps, could lead to shutdown of test and many other things.
Thanks for talking to me about this!!
Any feedback on JW would be good because you know the distrubutors of the company...Are they realllyyy that shady??Oh posted my reply without seeing your above reply...thanks for that
Yeah, looked at that but they said the other previous versions of jungle warfares had no steroids and they got busted! supplement companies tell you it is herbal and can get away with it...$$$$$$ hehe
And also they say Novadex XT is natural and 6-OXO which it isnt! it is chemically modified...
Where does the compound that i listed that is in JW come from? is it a ATD? and if that is herbal then which herb is it? i sent a email to ALRI but none of these questions were answered.
Yeah, looked at that but they said the other previous versions of jungle warfares had no steroids and they got busted! supplement companies tell you it is herbal and can get away with it...$$$$$$ hehe
And also they say Novadex XT is natural and 6-OXO which it isnt! it is chemically modified...
Where does the compound that i listed that is in JW come from? is it a ATD? and if that is herbal then which herb is it? i sent a email to ALRI but none of these questions were answered.
Quote:
"All tested organizations have different testing procedures and guidelines, so we cannot make an all-inclusive statement! However, many do test for ratios including free testosterone, or epitestosterone to estrogen ratios"
So really their saying there not responsible for lieing to their customers IF that compound is in fact a steroid.
Gosh, i better stop ranting!!! hahahaha
Anyways i will come back on later, sorry if any of this is useless
"All tested organizations have different testing procedures and guidelines, so we cannot make an all-inclusive statement! However, many do test for ratios including free testosterone, or epitestosterone to estrogen ratios"
So really their saying there not responsible for lieing to their customers IF that compound is in fact a steroid.
Gosh, i better stop ranting!!! hahahaha
Anyways i will come back on later, sorry if any of this is useless
Oh posted my reply without seeing your above reply...thanks for that
Yeah, looked at that but they said the other previous versions of jungle warfares had no steroids and they got busted! supplement companies tell you it is herbal and can get away with it...$$$$$$ hehe
And also they say Novadex XT is natural and 6-OXO which it isnt! it is chemically modified...
Where does the compound that i listed that is in JW come from? is it a ATD? and if that is herbal then which herb is it? i sent a email to ALRI but none of these questions were answered.
Can anyone answer the top questions? AZZA?
My personal experience tells me its not alot of bang for your buck. If you want bang for the buck i'd do Epistane or its clone Havoc. Under 30 bucks US. You already know enough about PCT and you appear to know what you are doing. If you want a stronger cycle then stack a wet compound with a dry compound. On Anabolic Minds site look up Thundergods Methyl Madness thread. Its a classic. I also have a compound list with brands posted up in the underground supp section at The Iron Dungeon.org.
Hope this helps.
AZZA
S
shammo
Guest
nice post shrek