Interesting and informative link, you presented shammo, none of which contradicts what I said.
The
first referenced article is a review of other literature, rather than its own study, so we can leave it aside.
In the
second study, "Consumption of both casein and whey proteins were found to bring about a similar positive net muscle protein balance". Not that I'd take much from that study, because it studied protein balance rather than actual muscle gains over time. One generally but not necessarily leads to the other.
The
third study just says that consuming skim milk gives you more protein balance in muscles than soy, however again they just studied the blood and not the end results. But they said, "The researchers also hypothesized that a combination of "slow" and "fast" proteins like casein and whey, both found in cow's milk, would be most effective for building muscle." Note that - "a combination." That is, whole foods rather than supplements.
The
fourth says, "Ingesting whey protein with or without creatine after resistance exercise results in greater gains in muscle mass and strength compared to carbohydrate". However, the study was of 36 "healthy, resistance trained males". That is, not beginners.
I said beginners could gain even without ingestion of large amounts of protein, provided they have overall a caloric surplus. I also said that after the first several months of training, people needed more protein as part of that caloric surplus. So it reinforces what I said about intermediate-trained.
The
fifth does not tell us whether the people studied were trained or beginners. Its results are that creatine is most important for growth - you get more with creatine and carbs than you do with protein alone - but that protein helps - you get more with protein alone than carbs alone.
The
sixth tells us that for 13 "recreational body-builders" (it's unclear whether they'd count as beginners or intermediate) that whey gave increase in lean mass and decrease in body fat, while casein gave neither; it also said that both groups gained strength, but the whey group gained more. It does not indicate if either or both groups had a caloric surplus or not.
In this case, we don't have enough information about the study to say if it contradicts or reinforces what I said. We have to know what they mean by "recreational" body-building.
The
last study tells us that 17 "resistance-trained males" (ie, intermediates) were split into two groups, one who had a whey/creatine/carb drink just before and after a workout, and one who had it instead before breakfast and after dinner. The former group got greater gains. They don't mention if the subjects had a caloric surplus or not. In any case it does not isolate the issue of whey, creatine etc. What it does is tell us that if you have something in your belly when you come to train, and put something in it right afterwards, you do better. Which I've never disputed.
In sum, a very interesting little pdf, telling us that,
- Beginners gain almost whatever they do
- Intermediates gain better with a protein surplus
- Creatine helps intermediates
All of which I said already.
The studies may tell us some other interesting stuff, stuff which may contradict what I've said, but we'd have to read them in full.
shammo said:
if im gonna train like a champion then im gonna eat whatever it takes to get the most out of it.
Absolutely, you should! And best of luck to you! I'm just saying that the vast majority of people who take up the iron aren't interested in training like or being champions. They'll pass "beginner" if they're determined, and after that be glad of the extra strength, health and fitness they have.
What beginners need is different to what intermediate and advanced people need. Beginners don't need 400+g of protein and heaps of supplements every day. They can save their money to buy the new clothes they'll need after all their training
