Who has long term experience with wrecked knees and squats?

[sentinel]

Hi brothers,

After lurking arround for a while, I decided to sign up. And what is a better reason for a 1st post than whining about an injury?

I hope that someone with a familiar condition and experience can give me some answers.

My story (that I try to keep short as possible) started at the age of 14. A unlucky turn/twist (spin kick) made me hit the ground, preceded by a crack in my left knee. The physicians said it was an "ACL-damage" and they want to open up my knee just to see if it was true. I was against that and lived with my condition for more than 13 years.

During the past years I discovered the benefits of weight lifting and also started running. At some point I felt even better than before my "incident". Squatting was never a problem, but now and then my running performance was suffering because of my left knee.

A magnetic resonance imaging brought clarity:
"My ACL is completely intact". The menisci are also intact. But there is a cartilage damage of my patella (3-4th grade). The doc stretched and turned my leg, stating that he knew that the menisci were okay before we even did the MRI.

My problem:
Sometimes I have the feeling that I can run trough half Europe, and sometimes the knee starts bitching after the first kilometer. When I stretch and bend my knee, it does crack and pop. When someone places a hand on top of my knee, a bounce can be felt. And there is this "injury-feeling" inside, that never goes away once you earned it. It´s not as it was before my injury, but I am certain that it will become worse if my legs become weaker.

The advice of my sports physician is: "to keep building muscles" carefully and to avoid running.

What I like to know:
Will squatting make MY condition (kneecap) worse?
Not asking if they are bad in general cuz I know they aren´t

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences and thoughts!

PS:
My doc hinted me a therapy with hyaluronan (one dosis) and additional atrhrotic supplements to protect the knee against further damages. Has someone experience with this?

 

[dave]

Squatting is not bad for the knees unless you do it wrong. In fact since you having stronger bigger muscles around the joint it can help alleviate some of the force going through the joint. But you never really know until you actually squat, so try it first.

Sadly you may have to stop running, luckily for you though distance running is for skinny little girls who do not want to get big .

So basically follow the sport docs advice. Start lifting and forget about running. Running distance ruins knees ask any middle to long distance runner.

 

[Huggy_B]

Building up muscle around the knee supports it better. The flipside to that is that heavier and heavier weights you start using put greater pressure on your joints. So I'd try and find a balance point somewhere in the middle.


But....

Can you have surgery to repair the damage? Long term it would be a better solution than allowing it to degrade over time IMO. I had ACL issues and eventually had a full recon and since then its been gold. Given you are still young, thats what I would do if it was an option.

 

[dave]

Cartilage repair is not the same as an ACL reco. All they can do is promote repair by 'roughing' it up a little and cleaning it out.

 

[Fadi]

What I like to know:
Will squatting make MY condition (kneecap) worse?
Not asking if they are bad in general cuz I know they aren´t

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences and thoughts!

I'm glad to see that you know who the culprit in your cause of injury is and that you're not simply pointing the finger at squats...as they are the innocent party here; can’t say the same thing about jogging though.

To answer your question, squatting may aggravate an already bad knee. So instead of squatting, I would concentrate on leg extensions for a while by getting the muscles surrounding the knee in a good enough shape which would allow pain free squatting further down the track.

It goes without saying that jogging is out irrespective of what your therapist has told you. It doesn't take an Einstein to see what injuries jogging causes to joggers all over the world. The only reason they keep on jogging is because they love it so much and no more.

Also, when you perform your leg extensions, do not return fully to the starting position where your ankle is behind the padding of the seat you're on (as in the way you've started the movement). By doing so, you would place more stress on the muscles surrounding your knee but less stress on the knee itself. Again, it goes without saying that there should be no bouncing whilst doing this exercise. So full control up/squeeze the thighs, then control back down to where your lower leg is at a 90 degree angle and no more with the seat.


Fadi.

 

[sentinel]

Unfortunately I really enjoyed running, without the need to give my legs extra work.

@Huggy B:
The very reason why I visited my doc, was because of my intention for an OP. But since we know that it´s another problem, an OP wouldn´t do any better than what dave has mentioned. Besides of that, my doc wants to avoid operations whenever he can. Even though he has experience with athletes. That guy is unique.

@Fadi:
Compared to squats, the leg extension always feels uncomfortable on my left knee. Nonetheless the advice on how to perform them propperly sounds promising. I´ll give it a shot.

Heavier weights... Guys, when do they actually start? I mean the kind that you should think twice about, before you start torturing your joints?
BTW: I stand 173cm at 84kg, with a 5rm at 110kg on the squat.

As far as I understood; simply squat, as long it doesn´t hurt.

 

[dave]

Try knee wraps, Spritcha on here can help you out.

Squatting 110 for 5 is a good start, do you get pain?

And yes it is pretty much you can do it till it hurts, I don't like knee extensions myself as they put more stress on the knee. And since they already hurt you maybe stear clear if Fadi's method does not pan out.

 

[Fadi]

@Fadi:
Compared to squats, the leg extension always feels uncomfortable on my left knee. Nonetheless the advice on how to perform them propperly sounds promising. I´ll give it a shot.

Irrespective of what I say (or anyone else for that matter), if your knee hurts whilst performing a certain exercise, then you simply listen to the boss (your body not Fadi) and follow what it says. Pain is a message that no one should ignore.

Leg extensions are usually done after a knee operation even on Olympic weightlifters before they get back into squatting. That means nothing as far as you are concerned. Having said all of the above, if you decide to give the extensions a go, please choose the lightest weight possible and proceed with caution.


Fadi.

 

[sentinel]

@dave: (Knee wraps could be a worthy addition, thx)
There is this "inner-wound-feeling" that I always have. But squats don´t appear to make it worse. Sometimes my knee even feels "glued" after a good session. I can´t tell if it is a direct result of the exercise, or just a release of endorphins.

I was more concerned about the results in the long term. On the other hand; its disturbing to think about the missing support that muscular legs provide.

@Fadi:
Forgive me the ignorance. I compare every exercise to workloads. No, light extensions are fine.

 

[tas_dean]

I have a very similar problem with my knee - chondromalacia patellae. Caused from my knee hitting the dashboard of a kingswood ute.

After researching weightlifting and knee conditions, I decided to start squatting, promising myself to stop if it hurts. About five weeks in, somewhere around 50kg 5x5, it started hurting. I thought I would have to stop. But because it started hutrting suddenly, I looked for causes. I had moved where I was squatting because I had built my power rack.

I found a lip in the floor, with the floor running downhill badly. My heels were a good inch lower than my toes. Next session, I turned around and loaded from the back of my rack, and have not had pain since. I lift barefoot.

My knee feels better than it has for years (since the accident), and I no longer get niggling back pain etc. Like you, my knee still has an "injury feeling" as you put it, but the improvement is immense.

 

[craze]

I keep having problem with my knees and squats, stop doing leg press at 250KG as it gives me knee pain.

Started doing squats, 30-50KG. Was going fine, but since doing more work in roofs etc (I use knee pads) it gives me pain when squatting, so i am just doing light squats and leg extensions.

 

[Goosey]

Fadi gives sage advice, I would just like to add that strengthening the musculature around the knee should Also include the hamstring and calves.
Leg extensions and leg curls.

 

[craze]

Went to the physio, strange my right leg muscles are larger yet to squat down on that leg is harder than the left.

He recommended not to do full squats??? He said maybe ok if no discomfort.

Its not the joint or the ligaments but something else inside

 

[Seano180]

Knees suck!!! i dislocated my left knee twice from doing stupid things (god i wish i could turn back time)
I found that i had weak muscles surrounding my knee caps which didnt help at the time of dislocation.
Just like you i feel the clicking and popping noise every time i bend down to deadlift or squat.. I just ignore it and squat.. Some days i feel chronic pain in my knee, other days it is fine.
My conclusion,
-Knees suck
-Keep squatting. lol

 

[craze]

Yeh i'm with you on that one, work is sending me for a few sessions to the physio its seems to help, squatting 90KG at the moment, nothing magical but getting there non the less.

Me wanty 210KG like elfreako!

 

[Seano180]

haha ill be happy with twice my body weight!!!

 

[sentinel]

Duty kept my from the forum for some time.
Fadi´s advice was gold. I started extensions with focus on using the hurting side actively. I Started with 40kg and it was so good, that I hit 100kg for 8 reps in 3 sets yesterday.

Curls are the thing that really hurt, maybe because of a imbalance between my bigger hammies and my quads.

@seano

doing stupid things (god i wish i could turn back time)

ha ha ha, the story of my life

@craze

Went to the physio, strange my right leg muscles are larger yet to squat down on that leg is harder than the left.

I have a similar condition. Just pay attention that you don´t "lean or sit too much" on the stronger side, or worser: using more weight on the opposite side.