Beginner concerns re: Scale?

[Hopper]

Hey . Long time lurker but first time poster and all that. Just hoping some of you vets might be able to offer me some advice as i start out and perhaps answer some concerns im having. I was gonna wall of text you here with my backstory but ill try keep it short!

Basically 2 years ago i weighed 140kg, i didnt like it and went on an extreme diet which resulted in dropping bout 50kg in 5 months. Problem was i wasnt training during that period so i lost all my muscle mass also. Eventually i started to ease up on the diet and gained back some weight bringing me to bout 115kg. Ive always wanted to start building, not for professional purposes, just for personal.

Recently i got that chance when my PT cousin needed a training partner as he starts training for his first male physique comp. So bout 3 months ago i started doing that. Ill note here that im basically following his routine which is a fairly intensive split hypertrophy routine 5 days a week-

4x15 (workout time varies from 1-2 hours)
Back
Chest/abs
Shoulders
Arms/abs
Legs

Aside from that nothing much else changed. I dont do cardio and my diet is far from 100% clean. First month i dropped about 6-7kg which is obviously slower loss than im used to but i was happy... However since then i cant seem to get the scale to move. My strength increase is quite frankly insane, ive tripled my max weights in the 3 months since i started and im definately noticing significant muscle gains... But the lack of weight loss is bothersome.

I dont wanna do this professionally or anything and i really really dont wanna have to "diet" anymore than i am currently (ive cut out sugary drinks and sweets and crap). I cant help but feel building mass isnt really gonna help me if ive got a thick layer of fat covering it... I go hard when i lift, high intensity, sweating like a hog, heart pounding, feeling sick to the gut... Am i REALLY gonna have to start doing cardio?

Thanks for any advice people .

 

[WarbyD]

Changes to your diet will bring the biggest fat loss benefits.. Until you dial your diet in you're never going to achieve the physique you want.

Rather than "going on a diet" that makes you feel like you're missing out though, which you will do for a while, then scrap and go back to eating shit, you need to find a diet approach that will work for you long term. Have a read of as many different diet/nutrition books as you can and play around with them to find an approach that you think you can stick with.

 

[Hopper]

Changes to your diet will bring the biggest fat loss benefits.. Until you dial your diet in you're never going to achieve the physique you want.

Rather than "going on a diet" that makes you feel like you're missing out though, which you will do for a while, then scrap and go back to eating shit, you need to find a diet approach that will work for you long term. Have a read of as many different diet/nutrition books as you can and play around with them to find an approach that you think you can stick with.

I appreciate the speedy reply. Honestly my diet isnt that bad though, its not like im smashing chips and chocolate all day long. Atm my diet is looking something like this...

Breakfast
Oatmeal with skim milk OR
Low cal protein shake with skim milk (both cases are bout 300 cal).

Lunch
Chicken salad wrap with light mayo OR
Low cal protein shake with skim milk (both cases are bout 300 cal).

Dinner
Ill admit my dinners are usually shit. I work late and workout late and dont really have time to prepare a dinner so its usually anything i can knock together or fast food (i take the lighter option where available).

Snack
Couple of pieces of toast OR
Low cal protein shake with skim milk.

According to my (albeit rough) calculations with my age/height/build/workouts i should be able to consume 2500+ cal and still lose weight. Theres just noway im consuming that much :/.

 

[jj80]

Don't drink calories (shakes) when dieting jesus christ.

edit: look at the sticky on dieting I put up in the nutrition section. Alternatively, the youtuber omarisulf (spelling?) says much of the same stuff, see his thoughts on diet, macros, getting fat too fast, leaning up etc.

 

[Headley]

Hey man, welcome!

How tall are you?

How much weight are you putting on your 4x15 routine? That routine should be pretty decent for toning up the muscle and making you stronger (imo).

I am about 6'4" and use to sit around 112 to 115 when i was doing a similar routine, weight stayed about the same but my bf dropped right off.

Does your total weight matter that much?

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Do some fkin cwrdio, lazy git

 

[Hopper]

Hey man, welcome!

How tall are you?

How much weight are you putting on your 4x15 routine? That routine should be pretty decent for toning up the muscle and making you stronger (imo).

I am about 6'4" and use to sit around 112 to 115 when i was doing a similar routine, weight stayed about the same but my bf dropped right off.

Does your total weight matter that much?

Thanks .

Im 6'1" and have a pretty broad build. Weights im lifting the same as my training partner these days. Im really new to this and im sure there is a couple of basic exercises that most people rank their "weights" by that im not aware of lol. If it helps any we are benching 50-55kg, incline benching 40kg, squatting 60-70kg and preaching 12-15kg. Im definately noticing huge strength and muscle gains... Id like to say my muscle gains are offsetting my fat loss on the scales but i just dont think thats realistic.

In the end being heavy on the scale isnt the be all, end all for me. Im enjoying the positives of hitting up the gym this regularly anyways... Id just enjoy it more if i was getting these gains and creeping down to 95kg .

 

[Sandin Face]

Hi Hopper

your 50kg weight loss proves you can rustle up the discipline when you really want to, but sticking to a good diet that you don't really like, forever, can get a bit tedious ...

Here are a couple of things I do:

1) General rule for dinner - try to make your dinner a no-carbohydrate affair - meat and green vegies - no potatoes, rice, bread etc. I think the general wisdom is that what you eat before bed has more chance of turning into fat than what you eat for breakfast, so concentrate you efforts on the last feed of the day.

2) Vegetable pre-stuffing - before eating the main part of dinner, have a large salad or plate of steamed/boiled/microwaved vegies. "Salad" means green leaves, not potato salad, anything with eggs, croutons, mayonaise, in it; and vegies means green things, not potatoes, pumpkin etc.

OK - like most real men, you probably hate salads and vegetables )). So, don't think of it as part of your nice meal, think of it as a kind of workout - think "I must eat this great big bowl of baby spinach", in the same way as you think "I must lift up this great big heavy weight" in the gym.

Don't bother to try to make it taste nice, and certainly don't use mayo or any other kind of fat-maiking stuff. Just shovel it in, as fast as you can. Use your hands - it's quicker.

Then have dinner.

Dinner
Ill admit my dinners are usually shit. I work late and workout late and dont really have time to prepare a dinner so its usually anything i can knock together or fast food (i take the lighter option where available).

 

[Headley]

I'd probably say being 105 - 110 would be your ideal weight if you are that tall and broad shouldered.

As said though, get some cardio going, it's just as important as weight lifting

 

[Hopper]

Really appreciate all the advice. I think im just gonna clean up the diet and see how i go... I dont think im exceeding my cals but obviously something is up. Im really gonna struggle to find time for cardio if im being honest but ill do my best and let yall know how it goes.

Cheers.

 

[White_Lie]

Without sounding like a douche, have you asked your PT cousin for a diet/meal plan? Surely if they're competing they'd know a thing or two...

And have you actually counted your average calories? Don't have to do it everyday but if you've never counted them, its certainly an eye opener.

Dinner doesn't have to be hard to be fast. Just get frozen vegies (good ones) and cut up a heap of meat once a week, put it in to snap lock bags and back in the fridge/freezer. Then just take one out a day and cook it up when you get home. Probably take as long as waiting for that take away

 

[Big Mick]

Hard to comment without knowing you, but how much weight loss are you expecting??

Usually ½ to 1 kg per week is about all you should expect, if you are lifting hard and are a beginner (which you obviously are looking at your lifts), means you will probably gain muscle fairly fast at the beginning.

So there for your weight MIGHT BE staying steady while muscle increases and fat decreases, but only you can judge that.

Diet is a huge part of it, it seems you don't really consume a lot of protein or fats for your size looking at your sample diet, and having take away for dinner is just a cop out, it takes less time to fry up some steak or a chicken breast than to go to McDonald's or some other fast food joint for a feed.

You should look at your diet, ditch the toast and crap that give you nothing and add some protein.

Oat meal and skim milk for breakfast really?? Where is the protein?? And what benefit does eating this give you to reach your goals?? How about some eggs and bacon, or an omelette, or some meat??

What is a low cal protein shake?? Why skim milk which usually contains more sugar than standard milk?? Why light mayo?? Same again added sugar and no fat, your body needs fat to operate correctly for full hormonal function, testosterone production etc, don't buy into the low fat diet thing that is making everyone fat.

Toast again for snacks?? What does this give you to achieve your gaols??

You need to start looking at food to feed your goals, if it does not help you towards them don't eat it.

 

[Hopper]

*Snip*

1kg a week would be acceptable. Honestly the only reason the weight loss concerns me is im holding quite abit of excess... Im not obese or even fat, but chubby, certainly. No doubt im gaining muscle rather fast (probably boosted by the fact doctors tell me my natural testo is in the higher range) and i dont doubt its contributing to lesser weight losses, but after nearly 2 months without change... Its a concern.

I agree the takeaway is a cop out. Not having time is only half the battle though. My live in girlfriend simply cant deal with eating for fuel over pleasure and i guess alot of it comes down to me not wanting her to feel like she needs to change her diet because of me... But thats neither here nor there. From yesterday onwards ill be comsuming home made rice paper wraps for dinner, plenty of chicken/beef, plenty of salad.

I dont think that the oatmeal is a terrible choice personally, i ate it when ive dropped large amounts of weight in the past without issue. Toast for snacks is horrible and again, as of yesterday ive stocked up on fresh fruit for snacking purposes. The low cal protein shake for me is half meal/snack replacement and half protein booster as i feel i dont consume enough for healthy muscle gains. Its just over the counter MP Combat with milk which comes in at a grand total of 240 cal, 6g fat and 33g protein per serve (i only use one scoop cause its too sweet using the recomended two scoops).

My numbers might be way off (and please, correct me if they are) but i estimate i should be able to consume roughly 2500 cals, 160g protein and 70g of fat with my workout routine, lose weight and gain optimal muscle mass. The shakes go a long way to helping me achieve those numbers and as a side effect they help ease my craving for flavoured milk drinks (masters mocha was what made me obese in the first place).

*snip*

Unfortunately my cousin can be abit hardcore at times and asking for him a meal plan will result in a strict diet of chicken, lean beef, brown rice and sweet potato... Great if i want to be a professional body builder, not so ideal if my primary goal is to just look decent in a singlet.

I do count my calories, as referenced above. I may be new to lifting but im no stranger to losing weight. This thread was more asking the question of how i should go about dropping weight whilst lifting. I could easily just switch to my old diet and drop 15kg in a month, but its not the healthy choice and not the way i wanna go about it this time around.

 

[Felixflex]

Don't be to strict on yourself mate its a long road and you have plenty of time. I personally only hope for 200-300gm loss per week and its easily achievable without deiting to radically.

Small changes are what work best 10 minutes of cardio twice a week and build from there or alternately cutting 100-200 calories per day and so on.

There isn't one set plan that works for everyone, it all comes down to trial and error and what works for you.

 

[oldcorollas]

My numbers might be way off (and please, correct me if they are) but i estimate i should be able to consume roughly 2500 cals, 160g protein and 70g of fat with my workout routine, lose weight and gain optimal muscle mass.

I do count my calories, as referenced above. I may be new to lifting but im no stranger to losing weight. This thread was more asking the question of how i should go about dropping weight whilst lifting. I could easily just switch to my old diet and drop 15kg in a month, but its not the healthy choice and not the way i wanna go about it this time around.

2500 is as good a place to start as any, as you already know how to lose weight your numbers for protein and fat look orright.

do whatever you feel comfortable with, but maybe aim for a bit less weight loss (0.5/week?) and focus on the weights for a couple months.. get stronger and then see how the fat is going

if not recovering enough or not enough energy for lifting, up cals a bit,
if it is all too easy, drop cals to what you feel comfortable with

after a bit, I'm sure you'll figure out where your cals need to be


re: cardio... more cardio = more food less cardio = more diet..
but that aside, a bit of cardio is not the devil.. it gets the blood flowing, helps your heart n lungs.. is not a bad thing..
but do fun cardio, not boring shit...

 

[Big Mick]

Oat meal might be fine for a breakfast if you are strictly losing weight, but now you need to feed your body to deal with weight training. You are not consuming enough protein full stop. The shakes are good for adding protein but it's still only 60 grams. You need more than that.

 

[Hopper]

Oat meal might be fine for a breakfast if you are strictly losing weight, but now you need to feed your body to deal with weight training. You are not consuming enough protein full stop. The shakes are good for adding protein but it's still only 60 grams. You need more than that.

Agreed. So trying out a new "plan" of attack keeping my macros in mind... This is what i plan to consume over the coarse of a full day.

500g lean beef/chicken.
2 of the above described shakes.
300g steam green veg.
Snacking on fresh fruit throughout.

This should come pretty close to my protein requirements. For fats my cousin suggested i put a tablespoon of olive oil over my meals but im not sure if i like that idea. This also leaves me at a pretty large caloric deficit that im not entirely sure on how to overcome (would it hinder me much?). Anyone have suggestions for fats and/or cals?

 

[jzpowahz]

1) General rule for dinner - try to make your dinner a no-carbohydrate affair - meat and green vegies - no potatoes, rice, bread etc. I think the general wisdom is that what you eat before bed has more chance of turning into fat than what you eat for breakfast, so concentrate you efforts on the last feed of the day.

I thought you were going to say cbl which is the current nutrient timing tend but nope went with the older one.

Track your calls for a bit including snacks. Get an accurate idea about consumption. Measure and weigh food. 2 weeks should be enough.

Adjust from there if required.

Take photos and measurements to track progress also



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[oldcorollas]

fruit snacking = sugar = decent contributor to cals?

peanut butter.. for oil + a bit of protein.. or other nuts..
rice for carbs?

or... eat what you wan t o eat to make up the cals timtams.. Doritos
as long as you are getting enough vitamins and minerals from your meat n veges.. then eat whatever you want to get enough cals

or take a look at jzpowahs marvellous food creations for ideas!

 

[Stonelifter]

1) General rule for dinner - try to make your dinner a no-carbohydrate affair - meat and green vegies - no potatoes, rice, bread etc. I think the general wisdom is that what you eat before bed has more chance of turning into fat than what you eat for breakfast, so concentrate you efforts on the last feed of the day.

Dat dere bro science.....