Building a stronger squat

[HIThopper]

Guys if your that worried about your squats put some vids up.

In my experience with myself and my brother whom I have taught the power squat, gming the weight comes from a few things.

Weak Hips
Weak abs
weak hams/glutes (KINDRED -think knees forward in the hole here)
Stance width (this was a big one for me, I used to squat too close)

To fix it for my brother I had him do goblet squats to a box for 2 weeks before we even tried squatting again. Having a DB on his chest taught him chest up and how to use his abs, and Giving him a box gave his ass something to aim for which taught him how to use his glutes and hams to sit back onto. After that its just a matter of learning knees out.

After 2 weeks of progressively heavier goblet box squats he full box squatted 100kg+ (I forget the number), this was done raw and beltless.Not a massive squat but not bad for a total newb to any type of lifting.


Put your vids up guys

 

[PowerBuilder]

With the front squat, when you find yourself leaning forward, I highly recommend you chose a different path, since that'll lead you to where your face and the ground meet. When the urge arrives to lean forward, stick your elbows out more. The should be parrell to the floor pretty much all of the rep.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

The good morning out of the hole is because the hips rise faster than the rest of the body, right? Wouldn't that be due to a weak upperback that can't push the bar up at the same speed?

Usually, weak glutes/hams.

There are two joint movements in the squat - knee flexion/extension, and hip flexion/extension. As you go down, your knees and hips flex (the angle decreases), as you go up, they extend. But obviously you can vary whether you do one or the other first. If your knees extend first from the bottom, then your hips rise up, and the squat turns into a good morning.

Look around your workplace or a restaurant sometime, you'll notice that many deconditioned people get out of chairs the same way - they lean their torso forward, extend their knees, and then extend their hips to stand up. They have weak bums.

The body doesn't know muscles, it only knows movement. When you tell it to do a movement, it accomplishes that in whatever funky way it can. If you're at the bottom of a squat and want to get up, your body says, "wooah, my glutes/hams are too weak to extend the hip against all that resistance - but my quads and lower back muscles are strong. So I'll extend the knees first using my quads, then when his hips are way up and he's bent over like a new guy on his first day in prison, I'll have him extend his lower back and hips. Then the movement will be mostly knee extension and use my strong quads, and not so much hip extension using my glutes/hams. That way, my glutes/hams can stay weak forever!"

With people who turn their squats into good mornings, what in my experience works well is

• to widen the stance a little bit, as greater depth in the hole forces them to use their glutes/hams
• to concentrate on extending the hips rather than having it all be in the knees,
• remember "chest up!" and
• to increase the weight gradually.

Normally you add weight so long as the person is physically capable of lifting it; but if the person's form breaks down, you don't increase weights until the form is perfect.

For example, someone may squat 60kg x10 perfectly, but make it 80kg x1 and their knees come together and the bar travels forward as their hips rise faster than their shoulders, after the squats their knees and back hurt. If they had perfect form, you might have them do a couple of reps at 75kg, and build up from there.

But since they have poor form, you go from 60 to 65kg and there you see the first signs of their poor form - their knees wobble inwards as they come out of the hole, there's just a little hump of their arse, too. And you just keep on doing reps at 65kg until it looks as good as 60kg did. Then by the time they get to 80kg again, it's looking good - and they quickly zap past it and go to 100kg.

I use those weights as examples for a reason. People can squat lowish weights with poor form, get them well over 100kg and usually either they lift it or they don't. People with squats under 100kg are different, one weight will go up perfectly, a bit higher will be a bit rougher, a lot higher will be a mess it's scary to watch.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

to be honest I dont see form decaying into a 'good morning squat' as a bad thing. It means your activating your hips.

No.

When you squat properly, you are using your glutes and hamstrings to extend your hip. When you do a good morning squat, you are flexing your lumbar spine, and using your lower back muscles to stand up.

Glutes and hamstrings are potentially much, much stronger than the lower back muscles. Lower back muscles are designed to be postural - just help you standing around keeping you upright. Glutes and hams are designed to give you movement, running and jumping and lifting heavy stuff.

As well, the spine can take enormous loads while extended, bugger all while flexed. Why do shelf-stackers and similar workers get fucked backs? Because they are constantly putting a load through a flexed lower back. You can get away with it a few times, that's why people can do round-backed deadlifts in competition and not injure themselves. Plus they have enormously strengthened their back muscles.

But if you are a weak newbie and round your back for thousands of reps, you'll be in trouble.

So if you squat and deadlift over 200kg, go ahead, lift with a flexed back, you can probably take it. But if those lifts are not even 100kg, your back had best be fucking rigid as Greek pillar.

 

[HIThopper]

Nice post Kyle

 

[Martigan]

Novice Lifter Squatting

I switched to wide stance a few weeks back, Still working on it.
[YOUTUBE]nLZgsQAkfoM[/YOUTUBE]

From what i can see i need to sit back more. What cue's should i be thinking in regards to hips and knees ?

Would this squat pass in a comp or do i need to sink it lower ?

 

[haz]

also the upperback can be weak. front squats will defiantly help. you can't goodmorning, upper back must stay upright.

front squat = win

Shane that squat would've passed (from that angle), it looked good. how are the knee sleeve's? im thinking of getting some soon.

 

[Martigan]

Haz they are schiek wraps Schiek, Inc. - Supports/Wraps
I just wrap in a spiral style, They make my knees feel real good.

 

[Oli]

No.

When you squat properly, you are using your glutes and hamstrings to extend your hip. When you do a good morning squat, you are flexing your lumbar spine, and using your lower back muscles to stand up.

Glutes and hamstrings are potentially much, much stronger than the lower back muscles. Lower back muscles are designed to be postural - just help you standing around keeping you upright. Glutes and hams are designed to give you movement, running and jumping and lifting heavy stuff.

As well, the spine can take enormous loads while extended, bugger all while flexed. Why do shelf-stackers and similar workers get fucked backs? Because they are constantly putting a load through a flexed lower back. You can get away with it a few times, that's why people can do round-backed deadlifts in competition and not injure themselves. Plus they have enormously strengthened their back muscles.

But if you are a weak newbie and round your back for thousands of reps, you'll be in trouble.

So if you squat and deadlift over 200kg, go ahead, lift with a flexed back, you can probably take it. But if those lifts are not even 100kg, your back had best be fucking rigid as Greek pillar.

Kyle they said 'my hips are moving first' but their chest doesnt. This implies that the glutes/hams are taking the load but the movement isn't coordinated enough to move with the chest.

 

[dave]

It could mean he is just extending his knees more than extending his hips.

Squat down now an just extend your knees, wow you are now in a good morning position.

 

[Prane]

box squats helped me a lot

 

[Oli]

It could mean he is just extending his knees more than extending his hips.

Squat down now an just extend your knees, wow you are now in a good morning position.

yes. and this is rippetoe teaching the squat. Notice how only the hips move which is exactly what he focuses on?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kawBY5p29fQ]YouTube - Mark Rippetoe: Intro to the Squat[/ame]

that might be your take but it isnt mine.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Kyle they said 'my hips are moving first' but their chest doesnt. This implies that the glutes/hams are taking the load

Not at all.

Squat down, reach forward and place your forehead on a chair. Straighten your knees, keeping your forehead on the chair. Your hips rise above your head. Working your buns much? Of course not, it's the quads - and as you stand up, your lower back.

The part moving is not necessarily the part doing the work creating the movement.

But by all means, turns all your squats into good mornings. Write to us from the orthopedic ward in the hospital a few years from now and tell us how it went for you.

 

[PowerBuilder]

Good bottom position.

Cues I give myself before each rep (when squatting) consist of...

#1 Fill my lungs with lots of air (which involves my stomach sticking out)
#2 Unbuckle my hips...which obviously unlocks my knees, but only minorly
#3 Chest high...so all the beautiful girls can't see my haooooog chest

 

[haz]

Lower back is not a hip extensor, so unless his lower back was in a huge flexion you would have a hard time goodmorninging using only your lowerback muscles. I also haven't read that his back was in flexion. if it was he would have failed the lift.

I think that the quads are weak. when the knees extend in the bottom position they apply no force to the bar (bar doesn't move). it is then up to the hamstrings/glutes to complete the movement (mostly hamstrings). I still think it is an upperback weakness. will need some video.

Also weak glutes as they are not contracting in the bottom position.

 

[Oli]

Not at all.

Squat down, reach forward and place your forehead on a chair. Straighten your knees, keeping your forehead on the chair. Your hips rise above your head. Working your buns much? Of course not, it's the quads - and as you stand up, your lower back.

I just did that and managed to move with pressure only being on my hamstrings.

 

[180sx kid]

dont over complicate it .. just squat ... squat and squat... your hips , ankles everything will become more flexible and natural the more you squat.