Bulk powders

[Sniper]

That's fine, call me devils advocate and forgive me is this has been covered but no one seems to want to be educated on the actual testing process, so how about more info on the tests conducted and their accuracy. What, where how is the testing done exactly and what is the margin allowances. Just because it stamped with a gov stamp means buckles really, especially when the company paying the bill is the one who has the most to gain.

I'm all up for quality control but I know from experience in having steel tested that you can send samples to 5 different labs to conduct the same test and the results will all vary, there is also a range of different methods for testing and with each method the results vary, so whats the legible factors the results can alter in these test.

For example Protein Powder normally has storage "keep safe' instructions / requirements on the label, how does this change the tested sample result, who can confirm the management and age of the sample prior to testing.

Was the original raw powder also tested before the mixing process, was this with in spec's range, how was this treated before mixing was the mixing done on a day that could upset the protein content, who knows really. One could go on for days on the "what about xyz" and questionable factors.

I'm sure there is much appreciation for the "good will", but lets not loose sight of your intention$ and the fact is what your doing can cause a lot of harm especially when there are multiple unknown factors that raise questions to any testing method be it protein or any thing.

Bulk Powders also sells raw unflavored protein cheaper than the mixes so why would they have the need to be unreliable with there mixes, I trust a company of their nature and if I want a more pure protein ill harden up and drink the raw stuff.


Question everything when it comes to politics, i say!....

 

[Sniper]

I can vouch that when i sent the samples off i was the only one to handle the powder

This is what I'm talking about.

Who can verify how the powder was treated before it was sampled, or in the delivery process or once it arrives at the lab.

There has just been a massive heat wave, does this affect the sample?

Don't forget who's paying the fee, corruption is always massive when there is influences $ on the table or under.

Maybe i'm just wired differently, i should have been a cop.

 

[White_Lie]

Multiple people can send in samples of the same product, it doesn't matter. End of the day, you're the one concerned about the product, you're the one sending it in and you're the one who gets the results. Its up to you if you want to share this information and up to others how they take it.

 

[Big Mick]

That's fine, call me devils advocate and forgive me is this has been covered but no one seems to want to be educated on the actual testing process, so how about more info on the tests conducted and their accuracy. What, where how is the testing done exactly and what is the margin allowances. Just because it stamped with a gov stamp means buckles really, especially when the company paying the bill is the one who has the most to gain.

I'm all up for quality control but I know from experience in having steel tested that you can send samples to 5 different labs to conduct the same test and the results will all vary, there is also a range of different methods for testing and with each method the results vary, so whats the legible factors the results can alter in these test.

For example Protein Powder normally has storage "keep safe' instructions / requirements on the label, how does this change the tested sample result, who can confirm the management and age of the sample prior to testing.

Was the original raw powder also tested before the mixing process, was this with in spec's range, how was this treated before mixing was the mixing done on a day that could upset the protein content, who knows really. One could go on for days on the "what about xyz" and questionable factors.

I'm sure there is much appreciation for the "good will", but lets not loose sight of your intention$ and the fact is what your doing can cause a lot of harm especially when there are multiple unknown factors that raise questions to any testing method be it protein or any thing.

Bulk Powders also sells raw unflavored protein cheaper than the mixes so why would they have the need to be unreliable with there mixes, I trust a company of their nature and if I want a more pure protein ill harden up and drink the raw stuff.


Question everything when it comes to politics, i say!....

This is what I'm talking about.

Who can verify how the powder was treated before it was sampled, or in the delivery process or once it arrives at the lab.

There has just been a massive heat wave, does this affect the sample?

Don't forget who's paying the fee, corruption is always massive when there is influences $ on the table or under.

Maybe i'm just wired differently, i should have been a cop.

You are looking too far into it, we been through this before and you obviously were not here, all powders are tested by the same method, so then they should all be the same. Certain Companies fail miserably, while others pass.

I have personally tested products from several companies using a simple carb contents test, and several tested at over 50% carbs, while others passed.

Think what you like and keep drinking your protein which possibly is not protein at all, may be look into it and test these for yourself, it's easy to do I tested Venom Protein sample this morning and it came up as a dud, definitely no where near the 90% protein claimed. May companies are failing lab tests.

It almost sounds to me like you are one of the crulpits selling the stuff trying to put dispersions on lab tests conducted by a Government Laboratory. I am sure a government lab is not going to be corrupted by a supplement company selling a few kg's of protein powder. It's not like they can re engineer home test kits either, all of which point to the one thing, companies selling dodgy protein powder.

You have 12 posts all trying to support companies that sell watered down protein powder…..it's not like this stuff is made up, I was consuming the crap for two years and should probably put in a civil claim for damages, may be we should all get together and go for a class action, but people (including myself) are too lazy to do it, we just move on.

 

[misslifty]

I will get 2 x BulkPowders batches tested along with a No Name from a local Health Shop and a Gasparri (SP?) powder.

 

[oldcorollas]

That's fine, call me devils advocate and forgive me is this has been covered but no one seems to want to be educated on the actual testing process, so how about more info on the tests conducted and their accuracy. What, where how is the testing done exactly and what is the margin allowances. Just because it stamped with a gov stamp means buckles really, especially when the company paying the bill is the one who has the most to gain.

I'm all up for quality control but I know from experience in having steel tested that you can send samples to 5 different labs to conduct the same test and the results will all vary, there is also a range of different methods for testing and with each method the results vary, so whats the legible factors the results can alter in these test.

For example Protein Powder normally has storage "keep safe' instructions / requirements on the label, how does this change the tested sample result, who can confirm the management and age of the sample prior to testing.

Was the original raw powder also tested before the mixing process, was this with in spec's range, how was this treated before mixing was the mixing done on a day that could upset the protein content, who knows really. One could go on for days on the "what about xyz" and questionable factors.

I'm sure there is much appreciation for the "good will", but lets not loose sight of your intention$ and the fact is what your doing can cause a lot of harm especially when there are multiple unknown factors that raise questions to any testing method be it protein or any thing.

Bulk Powders also sells raw unflavored protein cheaper than the mixes so why would they have the need to be unreliable with there mixes, I trust a company of their nature and if I want a more pure protein ill harden up and drink the raw stuff.


Question everything when it comes to politics, i say!....

NATA accredited laboratory. they have standards to uphold. they also have morals as opposed to some retail companies out there

NMI = The National Measurement Institute (NMI) is Australia's peak measurement body responsible for biological, chemical, legal, physical and trade measurement.

testing is according to Australian Standards test, used by dairy companies and food manufacturers alike.

As a Metallurgist and an electron microscopist depending on the grade of steel I know it can be quite difficult to get accurate measurements, either due to poor composition homogeneity, or due to the low levels of things being tested... trace impurity levels always difficult.

however, when you are testing protein and carb content, it is much easier to get a more accurate result. error of even 1% on 90% content would be close enough for these tests.

protein aging? even if the protein denatured or broke down into smaller protein chains, the testing measure nitrogen content, and the nitrogen is not going to escape.

it's good to be sceptical of testing methods.. but terrible to blindly have faith in a company when you don't actually know what they are selling is pukka.


you seem to be very defensive of BP and resistant to testing being done.. however if you had faith in the companies products, then you should be enthusiastic about having another company pay for testing, because then you get both the knowledge that what you buy is good,
then you can use that evidence to try and convince people to buy Bulk Powders instead of Bulk Nutrients

 

[oldcorollas]

Functions
NMI is responsible for maintaining Australia's units and standards of measurement and for realising those units of measurement through the development and maintenance of standards of measurement, reference materials and reference techniques. On 1 July 2010, NMI became responsible for trade measurement. NMI is now responsible for the full spectrum of measurement, from the peak primary standards of measurement to measurements made at the domestic trade level.

NMI appears to be responsible for maintaining Australias Standard Measurements.. ie they are the measurement place that all other measurement facilities are referenced.

if they cannot be trusted, and their methods are dodgy, that has international implications for trade....

http://www.nata.asn.au/index.php/scopeinfo/?key=82

NMI scope of testing for dairy products includes

.03 Dairy products listed as determination(s) by technique(s) using method(s)-
Acidity-titratable by classical using AS 2300.2.10
Ash by classical using in-house VL286
Carbohydrates; energy by calculation using in-house VL412
Chloride, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate by IC using in-house VL359
Cholesterol by GC using in-house VL288
Fat by classical using in-house VL302
Fatty acid profile by GC using in-house VL289
Moisture, solids-total by classical using in-house VL298
pH by classical using AS 2300.1.6; VL389
Protein, nitrogen-total by classical using in-house VL299
Salt by classical using in-house VL303
Sugars by HPLC using in-house VL295

 

[TTT]

Sniper - many months ago a lot of samples were simply tested with a reacting agent.
Basically, a couple of chemicals in a cup, add 1 gram of your protein powder, mix, put in microwave to add heat...

A protein that is labelled at 90% would turn black.
80% would be somewhere between black and brown.

When I did the test, I did one container where I simply added 1 gram of dextrose to the chemicals to see what pure sugar colour looks like..

After these tests, I went out and found a bloke on another forum who works in a "COAL" lab and could test a sample for me for free..

Another guy on this forum actually forked out $150 of his own money and went to a lab to have some samples tested.

If you want to know how the sample is tested, then do some research.
It was all covered and deleted from these forums due to possible legal issues.

As listed above, the lab being used is a legit lab.

If you feel that just because BN is paying the fee, feel free to just contact a lab directly and pay the money yourself.

If you are also happy to blindly drink what you're given without questioning or testing a product, then go for it.

After so many people here got stung by other companies here we are all happy that there is a way to get something tested without paying a large fee ourselves.


below is the PM from the guy on the other forum...
He initially tested his own stuff that he had at work as he mentions below.

Just got the result: 5.29% nitrogen. About half of what the stuff I ran through got ~79% or so. If it is whey protein (discounting moisture), then the factor gives ~34% protein as analysed. Sounds very low, but I'm not sure what you sent. Duplicate nitrogen results were: 5.297% and 5.278%.

I didn't get a moisture run on the sample because I didn't want to push my luck with the favours, but assuming say 4% moisture, it still only gives about 35% protein on a dry basis.

The stuff I originally ran through was professionalwhey.com.au aus whey protein concentrate; quoted as being 81.5% protein on a dry basis, and gave pretty close to that at 79% considering I didn't get a moisture done on it either, just assumed around 4%. Nitrogen results were around 11.8%.

We are a coal laboratory, so can't attest to the calculated values (the nitrogen % is pretty much all I can put my hand on my heart and say is right) but it may give you some reason to pursue proper testing by an accredited food lab.

[MENTION=17086]misslifty[/MENTION] I look forward to your results too.

 

[Sniper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kjeldahl_method

So interesting find, this seems to be the method used under the aus standard, this method requires a conversion so the values or results given will not be an exact and will be an approx value.

But lets face it if the results coming in are well under (at 30-35%) then the results speak for them self.

 

[oldcorollas]

this is basically THE method used worldwide for testing of protein from milk.

dairy manufacturers use this method for their products.
the numbers provided from protein powder manufacturer are using this method.
the labs that test your food and provide data for food labels use this method.
everyone testing milk protein uses this method

it is as exact as one can be with squishy stuff..
if you look deeper, different amino acids have slightly different nitrogen content, so the correction factors will change based on the individual components.
however, there is a standard number used worldwide as the accepted number when calculating from milk products.
that means you are comparing apples with apples, when done by different labs in different countries with different cows.

as said in the whackypedia link

The Kjeldahl method's universality, precision and reproducibility have made it the internationally-recognized method for estimating the protein content in foods and it is the standard method against which all other methods are judged.

 

[Jerreb]

In for results... I've been using bulk powders for the last year or so.

 

[TTT]

I will get 2 x BulkPowders batches tested along with a No Name from a local Health Shop and a Gasparri (SP?) powder.

Did you end up sending these in to the lab to get tested?

 

[0ni]

Avoid Gaspari, the idiot spikes it with taurine and some other amino acid
basically as like a filler, but on label still 90% protein or wahtever

 

[lkt004]

These tests wouldn't pick up nitrogen fillers would they? Would be interesting to test the guys who are paying for these test using amino acid profiles.

 

[0ni]

nah liam
“Protein spiking is where a protein manufacturer adds amino acids that are cheaper than the base protein powder it’s actually selling in order to increase the product’s nitrogen content. When this is done, the company is able to lower the cost of goods. A basic test for total nitrogen is often used to quantify the amount of protein per serving, and this test can be cheated by using cheap amino acids to spike the nitrogen content. The problem is that the inclusion of odd amino acids usually has nothing to do with increasing the performance of the whole protein itself, and it usually makes key ratios such as BCAA content go down, which is a total rip-off. If a protein powder (usually whey isolate) is so cheap as to seem too good to be true, check to see if certain aminos such as taurine and glycine are sky-high. If they are, you could be using a protein that’s been spiked. Also look for white specks in the protein powder (easy to see in chocolate). These specks are usually the amino acids that were added to the protein to offset the cost and raise the perceived protein content"

 

[MzPhoenix]

Avoid Gaspari, the idiot spikes it with taurine and some other amino acid
basically as like a filler, but on label still 90% protein or wahtever

This makes me sad, Gaspari is what I've been using for a couple months now. I'm looking to change tho as the supplier I was getting it from has upped the price :/ I'm thinking I'll switch to BN

 

[0ni]

This makes me sad, Gaspari is what I've been using for a couple months now. I'm looking to change tho as the supplier I was getting it from has upped the price :/ I'm thinking I'll switch to BN

Yeah for sure dudenheim... can't go wrong with the cheap pure stuff
Get chocolate, everything else is meh

 

[MzPhoenix]

Yeah for sure dudenheim... can't go wrong with the cheap pure stuff
Get chocolate, everything else is meh

I'm not a chocolate flavour fan, I was thinking of just going with the vanilla, it seems to get good reviews.

What's it like to cook with?? I love making pancakes and mug cakes with my protein

 

[0ni]

I'm not a chocolate flavour fan, I was thinking of just going with the vanilla, it seems to get good reviews.

What's it like to cook with?? I love making pancakes and mug cakes with my protein

I only cook with the unflavoured micellar casein, it's good as a substitute for flour or you can "cut" the flour with it

 

[TTT]

Vanilla BN is awesome