Converting to Sumo

[callan]

He needs Ivankos, can't fit enough weight on the bar lol.

At the deadlift comp they had we had to put a collar on backwards to fit it on.

eleiko*

i thought about changing to sumo, im going to stick with conventional for now but im going to Melbourne Uni to get my DL checked out at some stage

 

[Bazza20]

Ok been doing conventional deads and increased those by a decent amount. Now back trying sumo again and have found I have heaps more strength off the floor but just come to a total stop around the knees.

So what ideas do people have for helping sumo lockout.

I have done a few sessions of rack pulls which at first was very weak. First time was a max of 60kg less than off the floor but have lifted them up. My thoughts are since I still suck at rack pulls hammer them both sumo and conventional and see what happens.

Any other ideas.

 

[BigJim]

Deads with chains so it overloads at the top.

Could also use bands.

 

[Christian]

Ok been doing conventional deads and increased those by a decent amount. Now back trying sumo again and have found I have heaps more strength off the floor but just come to a total stop around the knees.

So what ideas do people have for helping sumo lockout.

I have done a few sessions of rack pulls which at first was very weak. First time was a max of 60kg less than off the floor but have lifted them up. My thoughts are since I still suck at rack pulls hammer them both sumo and conventional and see what happens.

Any other ideas.

I cant remember if i asked or not ar you a back puller sumo or more conventional sumo...

Good morning, and box squats should help. Focus on sitting back and pushing the hips forward through the squat not "standing up"

 

[Sticky]

Speed work/deficits then racks pulls on another day.

Also, my new foot positioning is working VERY well.
Fucking hits the hammys hard though, I can see them tearing if you don't have the strength there

 

[Bazza20]

Thanks for the ideas fellas.

Christian I am more of a back dominant sumo lifter.

I have tried box squats before but never found them to have any real carryover to my raw lifting, in fact it seemed to go backwards. I might have to give them another chance at some stage though.

Sticky, what did you change with your foot position.

At this stage I am thinking rack pulls are a definite as I think being able to pull a decent amount over what I can off the floor can only be a positive.
Just got to decide on another exercise and hammer them for a bit and see what happens.

Also Interested to know what do people think of touch and go deads when doing reps vs dead stop each rep.

 

[Sticky]

I pointed my toes out much further.

In my experience, most of the time unless you are failing at the top 1/5 rack pulls won't increase your overall 1rm.

However, if you are substantially weaker in a certain spot, work it.
I'm currently training 2 guys in a similar position to you.

The benefit of speed work is obviously going to help because if you can break the floor faster, you will carry more momentum/speed through your sticking point.

 

[Sticky]

Also, it's a deadlift, not a bounce lift.

Pause each rep .

 

[BigJim]

Thanks for the ideas fellas.

Christian I am more of a back dominant sumo lifter.

I have tried box squats before but never found them to have any real carryover to my raw lifting, in fact it seemed to go backwards. I might have to give them another chance at some stage though.

Sticky, what did you change with your foot position.

At this stage I am thinking rack pulls are a definite as I think being able to pull a decent amount over what I can off the floor can only be a positive.
Just got to decide on another exercise and hammer them for a bit and see what happens.

Also Interested to know what do people think of touch and go deads when doing reps vs dead stop each rep.

Its called a deadlift for a reason mate

Annoys me when i see people bouncing.

 

[Bazza20]

Its called a deadlift for a reason mate

Annoys me when i see people bouncing.

Ah yes that's the usual answer that everyone spouts on the net.

Why does it annoy you? It's just another training method.

Just interested because I always had that same opinion because that's what I had always read. That view changed after reading some stuff by Jim Wendler and Benni speaking the praises of touch and go. Decided to give it a go and added about 30kg to my conventional dead in a few weeks. Can't argue with results but was interested if others have tried it.

 

[callan]

Ah yes that's the usual answer that everyone spouts on the net.

Why does it annoy you? It's just another training method.

Just interested because I always had that same opinion because that's what I had always read. That view changed after reading some stuff by Jim Wendler and Benni speaking the praises of touch and go. Decided to give it a go and added about 30kg to my conventional dead in a few weeks. Can't argue with results but was interested if others have tried it.

y can chest the first few inches off the ground if you bounce it, only cheating yourself by bouncing.
same goes for bouncing a bench off ur chest, u cheat the first inch or 2, only cheating yourself.

 

[Christian]

y can chest the first few inches off the ground if you bounce it, only cheating yourself by bouncing.
same goes for bouncing a bench off ur chest, u cheat the first inch or 2, only cheating yourself.

its called overload....

Same reason bulgarians/russians do deadlifts first from a rack then the rack retracts and they start with an eccentric due to the stretch reflex giving them more and alowing them to overload then from a deadpull.

 

[Bazza20]

I pointed my toes out much further.

In my experience, most of the time unless you are failing at the top 1/5 rack pulls won't increase your overall 1rm.

However, if you are substantially weaker in a certain spot, work it.
I'm currently training 2 guys in a similar position to you.

The benefit of speed work is obviously going to help because if you can break the floor faster, you will carry more momentum/speed through your sticking point.

Yeah though trial an error I point my toes right out.

I can see the benifit of speed work. I tend to treat every dead set like speed work anyway so unsure if any more will help more? The other day I blasted 280 to my knees, couldnt believe how light it felt, then bang just come to a dead stop. lol

My sticking point on rack pulls is the same when I dead of the floor, I can lift a little more rack pull now but still the same sticking point.

As for touch and go, have you given them a go??

 

[Bazza20]

its called overload....

Same reason bulgarians/russians do deadlifts first from a rack then the rack retracts and they start with an eccentric due to the stretch reflex giving them more and alowing them to overload then from a deadpull.

Yep this is exactly what Benni says he does.

In a few weeks of trying touch and go I was a able to do my previous max for 6 reps. It's seems like this is a method more people might be able to try. Can't hurt.

 

[Sticky]

It can hurt, which is why I dont recommend it to people.

You will be able to get a lot tighter and rigid by setting up correctly pulling from a dead stop.

I have tried it, didnt like it.

If you want overload, use bands.
Same principal, but you will be able to get tight and set correctly between reps.
This is especially important to sumo lifters.

 

[callan]

In a few weeks of trying touch and go I was a able to do my previous max for 6 reps. It's seems like this is a method more people might be able to try. Can't hurt.

but was that set bounced? u cant compare a set of bounced deads to a set thats not. not having a go or anything, just saying

 

[Bazza20]

but was that set bounced? u cant compare a set of bounced deads to a set thats not. not having a go or anything, just saying

Yeah it was touch and go( not deliberate bouncing) but straight after i did a single with 30kgs over this previous max. This was only a few weeks. So something worked

 

[Bazza20]

It can hurt, which is why I dont recommend it to people.

You will be able to get a lot tighter and rigid by setting up correctly pulling from a dead stop.

I have tried it, didnt like it.

If you want overload, use bands.
Same principal, but you will be able to get tight and set correctly between reps.
This is especially important to sumo lifters.

Thanks for that answer sticky. That was what I wanted people that had actually tried it rather than just regurgitating what they had heard from someone.

 

[The Hamburgler]

It can hurt, which is why I dont recommend it to people.

You will be able to get a lot tighter and rigid by setting up correctly pulling from a dead stop.

I have tried it, didnt like it.

If you want overload, use bands.
Same principal, but you will be able to get tight and set correctly between reps.
This is especially important to sumo lifters.

This ^

Apart from the tendency to "get loose" during the bounce I also felt a jarring in my back.

Would maybe use it if the dead stalled out for ages but otherwise singles for me lol

 

[BigJim]

Ah yes that's the usual answer that everyone spouts on the net.

Why does it annoy you? It's just another training method.

Just interested because I always had that same opinion because that's what I had always read. That view changed after reading some stuff by Jim Wendler and Benni speaking the praises of touch and go. Decided to give it a go and added about 30kg to my conventional dead in a few weeks. Can't argue with results but was interested if others have tried it.

It can hurt, which is why I dont recommend it to people.

You will be able to get a lot tighter and rigid by setting up correctly pulling from a dead stop.

I have tried it, didnt like it.

If you want overload, use bands.
Same principal, but you will be able to get tight and set correctly between reps.
This is especially important to sumo lifters.

Scott pretty much answered it for me.

You see people bouncing the weight at my gym and their form is alright for the first rep and then completely goes out the window. Bouncing makes it difficult to get tight between reps comapred to if you allow the weight to come to a dead stop.

There are other ways i would go about overloading than bouncing the weight off the ground.

Nomsayain.