"Form"

[dr00]

i think if you are a noob lifting without a trainer and relying on the internet for information then you should be obsessed with form. even if this means you lift a bit less its a small price to pay coz back injuries are teh gay. its a balancing act you just have to learn for yourself, you want to lift as much as you can without compromising form.

 

[Goosey]

It's actually the first repitition where most care needs to taken and the last repitition is the safest.

 

[dr00]

Hear me now, if you cannot properly perform a squat without weight, you have no business doing it with extra weight on your back.

At my age you really appreciate healthy knees and back.

please explain how you can hurt your knees or back with a perfectly performed weighted squat.

 

[GHOSTrun]

So there is nothing wrong with your movement, just doing it too often resulted in a serious injury. You're logic is retarded.

How is that retarded?, that is spot on. That is exactly what happened to me.

This has been a useful thread. Mike has told us form isn't important, only lifting heavy weight, and we've found out that he used poor form while lifting heavy weight and injured himself. He's taught us a valuable lesson: results count, and count much more than words or theories.

On the contrary, I believe it was good form that allowed me to set a new squat PB after a 12month layoff and only 2months prior training to ProRawOne.

It's right here on film and in my training log..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cau1jKx25Cs"]YouTube - ProRawOne, Ghosty squats 137.5kg@68kg[/ame]

and I have 2 bulging discs. Crazy?

If my form was bad I wouldn't have set a PB and probably have gotten injured.

Anyone else want to tell me my form is bad?

Anyone else want to tell someone doing 20 rep squats their form is bad?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISPWWII1SWg"]YouTube - EFFORT Ghosty Squat 105kg x 18 - Old training vid from 3-12-07 - 58kg bw[/ame]

If you're not prepared to bust a nut then take up knitting.

If you haven't trained hard then don't comment, you can't possibly understand, Kyle.

I still stand by my point, less thinking more lifting. When you are throwing around weight that can hurt you then it's important, till then it's just conditioning, like 20 rep squats.

^ + here's the kicker (I talk from experience), ask Markos how many PM's he used to get from me in the begining asking every single question imagineable, and some you couldn't imagine, and the answer was always shuttup and lift.

 

[Goosey]

please explain how you can hurt your knees or back with a perfectly performed weighted squat.

I do not understand your line of question.

If a trainee wants to squat he must first learn how to squat his own weight first.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

Results count. Mike's philosophy:

I still stand by my point, less thinking more lifting.

Mike's result: SQ137.5kg @68kg and injury.

Now we know, following Mike's advice gets you a double bodyweight squat and injuries. Up to each individual if they think it's worth it.

Results count.

If a trainee wants to squat he must first learn how to squat his own weight first.

No argument here.

 

[Dancelot]

Ghosty, if you train smart instead of abusing your body with 20 rep squat everyday, you'll stay injury free and would be making constant improvements instead of a little bit here & there then getting injured. You could be like a 68kg lifter at my club who's squatted 170 for 3x5 and deadlifted 240 for 3x5, all raw. He doesn't go nuts, trains very smart and conservatively, and pays great attention to form. Believe me he's still working on form now. He's also a very modest guy. You'd never pick him as a strong one in a room full of people.

You have a decent level of strength but you're not that strong.

 

[pistachio]

sorry ghosty, i also think this thread is pretty dumb.

if you just go out there and bust a gut without giving a shit about form, you will get injured, full stop. i'm not even sure how anyone can debate that, i thought it was pretty much general knowledge. get the form right with a light weight, grease the groove, and THEN start lifting the weight.

pretty basic really.

nick makes some excellent points below. i don't know about your injuries history etc, but the other points are spot on.

Mike you must be retarded.

Last night you were complaing to me about how your lwr back is fucked, how it literally crippled you yesterday for a few minutes.

Yet you're not even at Markos's beginner standards of strength despite years of training, and youre injured to boot. FFS

Thinking you will just naturally fix bad habits in your lifting as you add weight to the bar is like someone saying your become a more competent driver as you put more power into your car.

WRONG!!

You're just setting yourself up for a more spectacular fuck up when shit goes sideways.

Learn it right the first time.

 

[GHOSTrun]

EVERYONE seems to have missed the whole point of the thread. Does this clear it up?:

Why are there people doing less than 100kg squats, bench presses and deadlifts spending more time analysing their "form" then actually lifting?

My bench press is less than 100kg, is that because my form is bad? No. It's because I need to train more and get stronger.

 

[NPR]

If you honestly think you could make no improvement through refining your movement you are simply showing your ignorance.

 

[GHOSTrun]

If you honestly think you could make no improvement through refining your movement you are simply showing your ignorance.

I would rather spend the time lifting and actually getting stronger, instead of perfecting an arch technique and reducing the range of movement - which is not getting stronger.

 

[underground]

FOR F#$KS SAKE.
Doing the exercises wrongly can benefit you by progressively building up strength in those bad positions in a safe way, so in the future when you're doing a lift with real weight and you come out the groove you don't break in half.

This is an "interesting" point of view

 

[dr00]

I do not understand your line of question.

If a trainee wants to squat he must first learn how to squat his own weight first.

i cant and never have been able to squat with good technique without weight. i just fall over backwards. my technique however is fine with a bar on my shoulders. you seem to be suggesting that somehow because i cant squat properly with no weight that im going to injure myself with weight despite good form.

 

[NPR]

I would rather spend the time lifting and actually getting stronger, instead of perfecting an arch technique and reducing the range of movement - which is not getting stronger.

Mate you can regurgiate as much of Markos's words as you like but it wont make you any stronger or any less injured.

Please find for me when I said anything about arching or ROM? You wont because I said nothing about that.

I said refining movement.

Proper setup, position on the bench, feet placement, breathing and bar path just to name a few.

An objective person would see that training for 3 years plus, failing to bench 100m squat 140 and deadlift 180kg yet sustaining a back injury is not good progress. In fact whatever they are doing is clearly shit.

Why a person like that would go spruiking advice like they are king dick is beyond me.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Mate you can regurgiate as much of Markos's words as you like but it wont make you any stronger or any less injured.

Please find for me when I said anything about arching or ROM? You wont because I said nothing about that.

I said refining movement.

Nick, arching to reduce the ROM IS "refining the movement" if your goal is to lift more weight, which is what you are implying. Regurgitated or not, that is fact. Don't blame me for your lack of semantics, I'm not a mind reader.

An objective person would see that training for 3 years plus, failing to bench 100m squat 140 and deadlift 180kg yet sustaining a back injury is not good progress. In fact whatever they are doing is clearly shit.

Yet even you realise I have not actually been training for "3 years"...

Mike you make a great effort maybe once every few months.

All the time in between is filled with no lifting, shit eating, no sleep or a combination of other rubbish.

Effort aint your problem.

COSISTENCY IS!

Why a person like that would go spruiking advice like they are king dick is beyond me.

It's not advice, it's an opinion and a discussion.

I still can't believe all you attribute my injury to bad form. It's from training harder than you do all year EVERY SINGLE FUCKEN DAY. And how's this for "injury", I am currently the strongest I have ever been, whilst being "injured", which is clearly a result of shit form. Fuckheads.

 

[Goosey]

i cant and never have been able to squat with good technique without weight. i just fall over backwards. my technique however is fine with a bar on my shoulders. you seem to be suggesting that somehow because i cant squat properly with no weight that im going to injure myself with weight despite good form.

Don't be childish.
Think about it, and how it could possibly help you, even more so if you Plan the be lifting for many years.

 

[dr00]

huh? childish? are you this condescending in real life?

please tie that very tall horse youre riding up at the water trough over yonder then come and explain how doing a weighted squat with good form will cause injury. i could in fact be a complete retard but i wont know if you dont explain it to me.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

I would rather spend the time lifting and actually getting stronger, instead of perfecting an arch technique and reducing the range of movement - which is not getting stronger.

So the plan you followed which gave you good but not great lifts and injured your back you're going to use with your shoulders, too?

Good luck.

 

[Goosey]

Dr00
I say fuck off as I do not have the interest or the energy to explain.

Good luck to you.
Consider my view or not. This of course up to you.

 

[Daniel.308]

You guys do know you can buy L-tryptophan from QLD legally?