"Form"

[Dancelot]

I would rather spend the time lifting and actually getting stronger, instead of perfecting an arch technique and reducing the range of movement - which is not getting stronger.

I like Markos'... passionate writing as much as you do, but there are things he's wrong about or overly exaggerates. He took a very special case (Minh's) and makes it as if all powerlifters train like him on the bench. Couldn't be more false. In fact, at my club, we usually give Minh sh1t over his bench technique (while admiring that he could do so at the same time - he works very hard on his bench technique, harder than most of us). We don't work on our technique to reduce ROM. We work on it to get our back tighter, hip & feet solid, the bar to hit a consistent spot on the chest, fast reversal, push it back towards the rack, consistent & smooth groove etc. Basically, recruiting everything we can from our body to bench stronger.

Minh may bench "funny" in your view, but that's just one lift out of 3. This week I saw him squat an easy 155kg for 3x5, with great technique, and he's your size. I'd say he's training to get stronger too.

Some of us still want to be doing this in not just 3 years time, but 30 years or beyond. Personally I want to still be lifting heavy shit when I'm 80, like the legendary Wim of PA. For that, I need to train smart, not hard in a hot-headed manner.

Longevity in the sports wins.

 

[NPR]

Dancer I like where your heads at.

Ghosty I'm sick of wasting my time.

 

[Goosey]

As I've stated many times, the only test a lifter needs to pass is the test of time.

 

[vegas]

NPR, can I ask what your lifts and BW are? And if you have ever been injured (major injuries like bulging discs)

As I understand you are one of the stronger ppl on here

 

[GHOSTrun]

NPR, can I ask what your lifts and BW are? And if you have ever been injured (major injuries like bulging discs)

As I understand you are one of the stronger ppl on here

Nick's story is one of the most impressive I have seen, especially where he started to where he is now, and what he overcame to get there. He can tell it if he wants

 

[GHOSTrun]

So the plan you followed which gave you good but not great lifts and injured your back you're going to use with your shoulders, too?

Good luck.

What plan? There was no plan. Don't you get it? I have NEVER followed a lifting routine, EVER. I do what I feel like when I feel like, that's what I enjoy about lifting. Sometimes I train 2 weeks non-stop, othertimes I train once every 3 months.

 

[PTC]

What we have here is a failure to communicate

Dancer, when Minh was chasing me to take ProRaw to PA he said PA litters could compete at the rep challenge

I would love to see some powerlifters come compete with litters just so you could show us how strong you guys are

Maybe I'll change my mind if I actually witnessed a show of strength

If Minh beats Max I'll close ProRaw down

Minh is older, trained longer, lighter which would help his formula and the greatest technician in the known universe

You guys can nut up or shut up

 

[Dancelot]

You're comparing apples & oranges, Markos. A failure to communicate indeed.

In saying that though, maybe you can bring Max to Uni Melb PL club for a session?

Minh's techniques are awesome, but Dave Jame is by far the best squatter and deadlifter at the club. Here's him deadlifting 270x5 (3rd and last set):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otGMD-U2QA4&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - Dave Jame 1x5 275kg Deadlift[/ame]

 

[leachy]

What plan? There was no plan. Don't you get it? I have NEVER followed a lifting routine, EVER. I do what I feel like when I feel like, that's what I enjoy about lifting. Sometimes I train 2 weeks non-stop, othertimes I train once every 3 months.

Your plain stupid. Consistency is key.

 

[NPR]

NPR, can I ask what your lifts and BW are? And if you have ever been injured (major injuries like bulging discs)

As I understand you are one of the stronger ppl on here

my lifts are average 220/150/275 at 110 no equipment.

3 bulging discs, last one was serious, had me in bed for 3 days almost unable to move.

Started training at 79kg in 2007, made the above lifts early 2010, took a few holidays and injurys in those 3 years no not solid training the whole time.

It's a piss in the pan compared to people like adam, steve, Wayne, Shane and plenty of other younger guys too like jdizzle, fergiez, freako and plenty of others.

 

[PTC]

You're comparing apples & oranges, Markos. A failure to communicate indeed.

In saying that though, maybe you can bring Max to Uni Melb PL club for a session?

Minh's techniques are awesome, but Dave Jame is by far the best squatter and deadlifter at the club. Here's him deadlifting 270x5 (3rd and last set):

YouTube - Dave Jame 1x5 275kg Deadlift

Please explain the apples and oranges

Both roughly the same weight, Minh trained longer, his technique against Max's strength. I know Minh only finished 8th at Nats last year, but he should finish higher this year, Daniel Anderson has switched to CAPO.

If you see him, tell him to ring me, I'll at least pick up.

Or would you like to go against Gareth, same weight, same age, same lifting experience. He totals 100kg more though.

Stop bashing PTC lifters Dancer, your better than that. Brainwashing people doesnt make them stronger, pass the message on to Robert. Dimi has friends who train at PTC, so I hear a fair bit of what is discussed at your gym.

This is personal now, because Robert made it personal.

The day Max competes at IPF is when I give this game away.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Your plain stupid. Consistency is key.

When did I say it was not?

Go on.. quote where I said "consistancy is not the key"....

Seriously some of you people need to fucken read the thread before you post.

 

[Shrek]

Stop the insults FFS.

Good thread, I don't want to close it.

I kinda agree with Ghosty.

I never really learnt how to squat ( for example) but just did and have squatted 150 for reps (in my younger days). Over time I learnt correct form and I am happy to say have never had a squat injury. Thanks God.

 

[Dancelot]

Markos, I said you're wrong about how we train (esp since you've never been to our club), not that your way of training your lifters is wrong. Not everything we say is a direct challenge to your training philosophy, your lifters, PTC or ProRaw. I'm simply defending the way we train since Ghosty brought it up here, and I'm sure you would do the same for PTC if someone who's never been to PTC talks shit about your coaching or your lifters.

I didn't ask Max to compete with the IPF. I said bring him to the club for a training session, since you're always so eager to tell people who question you to come to PTC for a session. Don't worry, Max won't catch that IPF brainwashing nasty stuff.

When I train at the club, I train, and then I help spot people or watch their sets. We don't sit around discussing PTC or anything other than lifting. There are a few jokes thrown around, like, "oh noes, what would Markos say if he sees you here?" when some of your previous fav lifters joined, but that's it.

You are being unfair to Robert here. He never talks about you or PTC to me or anyone, that I've heard about since I joined August last year. He's not the nicest bloke in the world though. Usually he'd tell me how I'm not emotionally ready to do some lifts or it's all in my head or it's something I need to ask my mother about if I want to improve my lifting , but I'm sorry to say, other feds, gyms and lifters are not a topic of discussion.

 

[Dancelot]

Oh btw I'm one of the worst lifters in that gym (Robert calls us the loser division) so if you want someone to compare Gareth - one of your best - to, I can give you better examples.

I'll happily compete with your loser division lifters, if you want.

 

[PTC]

Dancer I got no beef with you, I'll drop it and talk to you about it in person one day, hopefully at PTC at a seminar

As for Gareth being my best in your class, I guess you forgot about Kelly lol

Gareth's best total is 560kg, Kelly's is 575kg

I was comparing apples with apples, and your actually a bloody good lifter

Good luck at Nats

 

[Iron Alliance]

I was never taught how to lift at all, I had to figure it out myself and it held me back big time. I didn't squat my whole first year of training, not because I neglected my legs but because I had no idea how to squat properly. When I did start squatting it was high as shit and I thought I was going low enough, but I just didn't know. Didn't deadlift because I didn't know it existed. The most basic of movements, picking something up off the ground...Eventually I taught myself what I think is good form and have subsequently only ever been injured once due to lifting because I lost form from an overly inflated ego. Never once squatting now and that was doing 20 reppers 3x/week with 120kg.

Also I'm very dissapointed my picture was removed, I felt it was most informative and useful towards this discussion.

/back to e-fighting/

 

[180sx kid]

I can see both sides of the coin here however I think form is important because whist it may not catch you out at the beginning it will as you get stronger.
Ive had my fair share of injuries ad never really cared about form util last year and I put my injuries down to both form and my gun ho attitude.
I think for beginner and intermediate lifters which is 99.99% of ppl i commercial gyms you can get away with poor form but once your lifts start gettig up to advance/elite level you really need to make sure everything is in the groove otherwise it doesnt matter how strong you are your body will break.

 

[PTC]

I can confidently say that Mike is not talking about form, but rather guys spending time perfecting a technique whilst ignoring the reason we go to the gym, to get strong.

He is not stupid enough to tell people to lift with shit form, thats not what he's trying to say.

How many times has someone posted on here that they dont squat or deadlift because they dont know how and want to get their technique right before they start.

How the fuck did anybody ever pick anything up in the beginning.

Mikes not the best at explaining himself, but I've been reading his posts for years and understand what he means.

You shouldve too Nick before having a crack at Ghosty, when has he ever been clear in his posts.

When I began lifting, the goals for lifters were simply 200-300-400lb. Once achieved, you could stray from the basics.

Mike is saying guys cant do that and are straying from the basics in search of an easier way. Thats all.

And for the record, Mike has done 204-303-369 at under 150lb. Thats not too bad

Strong is Strong

 

[Chris]

This thread has been gold, who needs TV when you have this lol.