My workout routine..welcome feedback

[Golden Hurricane]

That sounds a bit like dodgy science to me, whereabouts did you read that? I thought the professionals split their routine so that they could get their energy back and do two serious workouts per day. However, you must be doing something right if you're shifting those kg.

I generally work out for 50 minutes to an hour, but that is generally because I'm absolutely knackered by about that time. It is enough to let me hit two muscle groups from three different angles

40 minutes is ideal, but its when it gets over an hour that it becomes too much of a problem. Sometimes less is more.

I would also highly recommend Skip Lacour and Jeff Willets DVDs to anyone. Great information for naturals looking to get the quickest results.


'Cortisol is a stress hormone that's released during bouts of training. Some is needed, but too much cortisol, especially if it stays elevated after the training session, can greatly decrease muscle growth and strength improvements.
Cortisol is catabolic, meaning that it leads to the breakdown of stored substrates. During exercise, this can be useful since it'll breakdown stored glycogen into glucose and stored fat into fatty acids to provide energy for the working muscles. However, post-training it'll continue to breakdown glycogen which slows recovery. It also breaks down muscle tissue into amino acids, making it harder to add muscle mass.

Furthermore, since both cortisol and Testosterone are both made from the same raw material (pregnenolone), constantly elevated cortisol levels will eventually lead to lower Testosterone levels.
Cortisol output during training has been correlated with training volume; the more work being done during a session, the more cortisol is produced. This is especially true when metabolic-type training (high reps, short rest intervals) is used.
To avoid overproducing cortisol, you want to keep your sessions short, around an hour or less.
Another reason to avoid long sessions is related to mental focus. Regardless of how much you love training, at some point your focus will go in the crapper during a long session. The work performed in that state will be unproductive and could even lead to bad habits that'll screw you in the long run.
You can train more than one hour per day, but split your daily volume into two workouts. In fact, splitting your daily workload into several shorter sessions is much more effective, as it leads to both lower cortisol production and higher Testosterone levels. It's been shown that when two daily sessions are used, Testosterone production is higher after the second workout than after the first.'

-From T-Nation.com | Type of Contraction and Exercise Duration


another:

'The 30 to 40 minute workout offers the following benefits:

• It's much more feasible to maintain maximum mental and physical intensity for 30 to 40 minutes than for 90 minutes. In fact, after 30 minutes mental focus and intensity start to decline rapidly.
• Training for 30 to 40 minutes maximizes hormonal spikes related to high-intensity training. Max-OT training maximizes key hormonal output based on intensity and duration.
• Training for 30 to 40 minutes optimizes the "anabolic-window" high-intensity training provides. Going beyond the 40 minute threshold places you outside the optimum hormonal response time.
• Training beyond 40 minutes increases the risk of over-training and increases catabolic hormone secretion. As you drift outside the "anabolic-window" you enter a detrimental "catabolic" phase. Training beyond 40 minutes decreases anabolic activity.'

- from http://www.ast-ss.com/item_maxot.php?id=25&page=8

 

[Golden Hurricane]

From 40kg to 160kg bench press in 9-12 months of serious training....

That is amazing.

I can vouch for this. He is a machine.
But hey I did teach him everything he knows haha
jk heavy reps!

Now i gotta go train so i can try to keep up

 

[Shrek]

Also yesterday you wrote this.

proper cardio shouldn't be done after a workout.

An ideal workout is 45mins and no longer than 1 hr. Any longer than this and the body starts releasing cortisol.

Cortisol promotes the breakdown of proteins and raises the free amino acids in the serum, by inhibiting the takeup of protein. Not something you want after you have just done a workout to break down your muscles. You want your body to be taking up protein.

So I would recommend you change your routine to have cardio on its own day.

This is what I do:

Monday - Shoulders / traps and triceps
Tuesday - cardio and abs
Wednesday - Chest and back
Thursday - biceps and legs
Friday - day off
Saturday -Cardio
Sunday - day off or cardio depending on goals

this split allows you to work each part hard and then gives it enough recovery period. Cardio is done on alternate days and away from legs, so they still get a chance to recover.

hope this helps.

Lift like a freak!

Pretty sure it says legs on Thursday. Did you change your mind today?

 

[Heavy Reps]

Golden Hurricane...has hit the money with the articles on cortisol...thanks for posting that...was trying to find the articles.

If you are training more than 45 mins, I think you are stunting your growth. As Golden Hurricane says, the pros like La Cour and Willett, have timed workouts to reduce cortisol increases.


Shrek....if you read my posts, i say that after 7-8 weeks I change my routine....guess what this week was??...that right, time for a change...

Shrek, can you post your workout routine and weights..

 

[kindred]

I can vouch for this. He is a machine.
But hey I did teach him everything he knows haha
jk heavy reps!

Now i gotta go train so i can try to keep up

40kg-160kg in 9-12 months???

 

[The Hulk]

I don't exactly believe the cortisol thing and 40 to 45 mins being a cut off.

Everybody is genetically different.
Everybody trains with different intensity levels.

It's not like a poison is released into your bloodstream after 45mins and will start melting your muscle away like acid.

Is that 45mins from your 1st super intense set or 45mins from your first warm up set.
How will your body know this?

There would be a million guys who train for 1 hour or slightly longer who get better results than guys training 40 mins, they can't be wrong.

I just think there's too much over anylising in bodybuilding.
Best to keep it simple and just do it.

 

[Golden Hurricane]

I don't exactly believe the cortisol thing and 40 to 45 mins being a cut off.

Everybody is genetically different.
Everybody trains with different intensity levels.

It's not like a poison is released into your bloodstream after 45mins and will start melting your muscle away like acid.

Is that 45mins from your 1st super intense set or 45mins from your first warm up set.
How will your body know this?

There would be a million guys who train for 1 hour or slightly longer who get better results than guys training 40 mins, they can't be wrong.

I just think there's too much over anylising in bodybuilding.
Best to keep it simple and just do it.

No its not this extreme, and there is more than one way to do things, but it's more about finding out the most efficient way of doing things to give you the best results quicker. Your spending your time, money and effort doing this, why not make the most of it?

I agree.. keep things simple. 40 minutes in the gym is simple. Sometimes a proper knowledge of things helps you keep it simple.

There may be too much over analysing, I also think their is too much blind following. Too many articles written by the pros, too many supplement adverts, not enough evidence based bodybuilding, etc. Max-OT was partially written to counteract the flood of useless information put out their to confuse those that didnt know otherwise.

Protein, creatine and a good diet is simple. Proper nutrient timing is also simple, when you know the reasons behind it.

For all those people taking high GI carbs post workout, may also like to know the reason why they should do this is it replenishes glycogen stores they just burned, increases insulin to help drive nutrients into muscle and this increase also blunts the effects of cortisol which breaks down muscles for amino acids and energy to fill the deficit you just created. Limiting your time in the gym, whilst still getting an effective muscular overload, is another way of blunting the effects of cortisol.

I find it interesting to know these things, but maybe thats just my curious mind at work.

Do your thing.

 

[Shrek]

Shrek, can you post your workout routine and weights..

Sure, no probs.

Day 1 - Back/Read Delt/Hams
Pulldowns x 4
T-Bar Row x 4
Rack Deads x 4
Rear Delt Raise x 2
SLDL x 3
Leg Curl x 3

Day 2 - Chest/Arms
Flat Bench x 4
Incline Bench x 3
Incline Flye x 3
Barbell Curl / Skull Crusher Superset x 2
Rope Pulldow / Incline Curl Superset x 2
Bench Dip / Reverse Curl Superset x 2

Day 3 - Quads
Leg Ext x 2
Squat x 4
Hack Squat x 3
Lunge x 2

Off

Day 4 - Shoulders/Calves/Abs
Hang Cleans x 4
Dumbell Press x 3
Side Raise x 3
Barbell Shrugs x 3
Donkey Calf raise x 3
Seated calf Raise x 3
Crunches x 3
Reverse Crunches x 3

That's my routine. I stick to 12 down to 6 reps.
I have not posted weights as i beleive weight is irrelevant in bodybuilding.
I generally squat about 150kg, Bench around 120kg have been oigher in the past and deadlift around 160-180.

 

[The Hulk]

My training preference is 3 days/week, Mon/Wed/Fri.

Workouts take about an hour, or just over.
I would much prefer to train just 3 days a week than 5 days at 40 mins.
Have achieved great results on 3 days/week.
The more recovery time, the better, I say.

There are so many conflicting methods and studies done on bodybuilding and the difference in results would be absolutely minimal.

Some freaks look like well trained athletes, and they may have never trained with weights and have a terrible diet.
Then there are those who do absolutely everything right, but still like the average guy in the street.

I say just get the basics right and the small details will take care of themselves.
Diminishing returns comes into it alot.
No point spending half your time and money on fancy diets, supplements, special training techniques, etc for a 10% extra gain when the absolute basics (basic diet + basic lifting) will get you 90% of results.

No amount of supplements and scientific training techniques is going to turn an average Joe into a really awesome (drug free) bodybuilder.
If you don't respond well to the basics, your future bodybuilding gains will be limited by your genetics.