slow upper body progression

[SkinnyKid]

Hi all,

I've been on Starting Strength for about 8 months now. My deadlift has gotten up to 150+kg and my squat is 130+kg. I'm quite happy with the progression in these lifts but my bench and military press have seen very little progression (70kg and 50kg+ respectively). I am also only able to do a few chin ups and am unable to do wide grip pull ups without assistance.

If you compare the amount of (or lack of) muscle I had before, I guess I shouldn't be complaining but after reading some of the training logs on here, I feel my upper body strength should be greater.

I just wanted to ask if people have had similar experience with their progression on the same program and see if people have any possible solutions. I have two other friends that are on starting strength and also lack the strength in their upper body. I know Markos said that a beginner should be able to bench 100, squat 140 and DL 180 and I feel like I will not be able to meet the bench. I don't think I have form issues but I can try and record myself next time if requested. Perhaps I just need to grow a set and push harder.

Any comments would be appreciated

 

[Christian]

Eat more sleep longer train harder...

 

[dave]

You are correct that is a weak press to squat/dead ratio. You could try and add more volume and give it 8 weeks and see how you progress (5x5) or increase the frequency of your MP and BP. What was were your numbers before you start training?

Also for the chins you can try adding extra negatives on top of your normal chins or better yet swap them for inverted rows and work your way up in that exercise before progressing to chins. I have found personally that adding dips (weighted bench dips if you can not do normal ones) into a workout has really helped my benching and MP. A couple of sets at the end of your workout may help bring up your numbers.

 

[Dancelot]

Every beginner has form issues. Post up some videos, mate.

A few months ago, my BP went up 15kg after a week of fixing form; last month I got a 7.5kg increase after a week of further form fix (and I know I still have lots of work to do).

Adding dips also helps to bring my BP and MP up.

I still suck at chin-ups - and have been prescribed: "more chin-ups".

 

[PTC]

How much do you weigh and how tall are you big fella?

 

[Oli]

I also suck at the bench and press, and also do rippetoes LOL

Bodyweight is pretty important for the bench press - squats and deadlifts are way more dependent on leverages.

If it were me i wouldnt worry just yet - technically you could do some more upper body work but it would completely bastardize the program. You have much further you can get out of it. You should be able to get to 150-160kg in the squat for 3x5 and 180-200 in the deadlift for 5 reps. by then you should manage a 100kg bench easy.

curious did you do cleans or rows?

 

[big danny]

Hi all,

I've been on Starting Strength for about 8 months now. My deadlift has gotten up to 150+kg and my squat is 130+kg. I'm quite happy with the progression in these lifts but my bench and military press have seen very little progression (70kg and 50kg+ respectively). I am also only able to do a few chin ups and am unable to do wide grip pull ups without assistance.

If you compare the amount of (or lack of) muscle I had before, I guess I shouldn't be complaining but after reading some of the training logs on here, I feel my upper body strength should be greater.

I just wanted to ask if people have had similar experience with their progression on the same program and see if people have any possible solutions. I have two other friends that are on starting strength and also lack the strength in their upper body. I know Markos said that a beginner should be able to bench 100, squat 140 and DL 180 and I feel like I will not be able to meet the bench. I don't think I have form issues but I can try and record myself next time if requested. Perhaps I just need to grow a set and push harder.

Any comments would be appreciated

Are u doing a lot of sets? That might be one of the causes. For some ppl chest is very hard to grow. That's why I found out that is important not to waist too much strenght on sets. After a good warm up do one single set of 7-8 reps to failure. You ll need a helper of course to spot you. Last rep should end with a negative. Seems like too little work, but on your next training you should increase weight and start building up from 6 reps. This way every week you will see a progress, either on weight lifted, either on numbers of reps. Eating enough protein is important too. If you don't get enough from the food, our sponsors have great protein suplements. Good luck!

 

[Dancelot]

Bodyweight is pretty important for the bench press

Sure, but if most of your BW are in the lower half (i.e big squatter's legs & glutes) then it won't help your BP.

 

[macca]

You could try focusing on the presses, by performing them first each day (before squats). It is possible that you are not recovering fully between exercises, so putting the upper body movements before squats/deads (the most taxing exercises) will ensure more energy can be put towards them.

 

[SkinnyKid]

Eat more sleep longer train harder...

I figured someone was going to say something like that I'm on my break from uni and I've really put in the effort to straighten up my diet and get 180 grams of protein a day. Being Asian, I get plenty of carbs too. I know my rest is great because I'm able to sleep in everyday

You are correct that is a weak press to squat/dead ratio. You could try and add more volume and give it 8 weeks and see how you progress (5x5) or increase the frequency of your MP and BP. What was were your numbers before you start training?

I'm not so keen on changing too much of the program. I've tried different repetition patters like 5x5 and 4x8 but always end up going back to 3x5 because I want to stay consistent. My working set started at 40kgs 3x5

Every beginner has form issues. Post up some videos, mate.

I'll try get some videos up asap

How much do you weigh and how tall are you big fella?

Currently, I'm at 183cm weighing 84kg (23% body fat)

If it were me i wouldnt worry just yet - technically you could do some more upper body work but it would completely bastardize the program. You have much further you can get out of it. You should be able to get to 150-160kg in the squat for 3x5 and 180-200 in the deadlift for 5 reps. by then you should manage a 100kg bench easy.

curious did you do cleans or rows?

Yes, these are my thoughts exactly but it seems like all the kids care about nowadays is the bench. When I mention the progress I made on my squat, I often get a stupid sarcastic remark like "Oh, good for you. Girls really like looking at big legs".

Sorry, I should have made it more clear in my initial post. Yes, I do clean and row. My row is roughly on par with my bench and I just started doing power cleans recently. Form is a tricky thing to grasp for the clean though and I just look like an idiot when I do them. As for the accessory work like chin ups and dips, I do these but recently have not been able to because I've started going to the gym in the evening when it is busy. I would go earlier if I could but for work reasons with my gym partner, I can't. I can almost do 2x8 dips unassisted but there is only one place to do dips in my gym and I figure it would be better to just take my whey protein and get out of there than to wait 20 minutes for accessory work.

You could try focusing on the presses, by performing them first each day (before squats). It is possible that you are not recovering fully between exercises, so putting the upper body movements before squats/deads (the most taxing exercises) will ensure more energy can be put towards them.

I haven't thought of it that way before. However, if I do this, it would mean that I would be doing a press, squat and a pull in that order. I'm not so sure if I should be squatting before a deadlift.

 

[PTC]

Okay, at 84kg with 7 months of training, its clearly obvious your program is not working.

You seem dead against changing it.

Good luck with your 70kg bench press.

 

[Christian]

I figured someone was going to say something like that I'm on my break from uni and I've really put in the effort to straighten up my diet and get 180 grams of protein a day. Being Asian, I get plenty of carbs too. I know my rest is great because I'm able to sleep in everyday



I'm not so keen on changing too much of the program. I've tried different repetition patters like 5x5 and 4x8 but always end up going back to 3x5 because I want to stay consistent. My working set started at 40kgs 3x5



I'll try get some videos up asap



Currently, I'm at 183cm weighing 84kg (23% body fat)




Yes, these are my thoughts exactly but it seems like all the kids care about nowadays is the bench. When I mention the progress I made on my squat, I often get a stupid sarcastic remark like "Oh, good for you. Girls really like looking at big legs".

Sorry, I should have made it more clear in my initial post. Yes, I do clean and row. My row is roughly on par with my bench and I just started doing power cleans recently. Form is a tricky thing to grasp for the clean though and I just look like an idiot when I do them. As for the accessory work like chin ups and dips, I do these but recently have not been able to because I've started going to the gym in the evening when it is busy. I would go earlier if I could but for work reasons with my gym partner, I can't. I can almost do 2x8 dips unassisted but there is only one place to do dips in my gym and I figure it would be better to just take my whey protein and get out of there than to wait 20 minutes for accessory work.



I haven't thought of it that way before. However, if I do this, it would mean that I would be doing a press, squat and a pull in that order. I'm not so sure if I should be squatting before a deadlift.

Perhaps 180g of protein per day is not enough for you or your ratios arnt working for you in regards to fats... Fats are very important also.
Also as stated above program is just as imortant in regards to correct exercises..

There are 3 programs reccomended here for begginers.. Take a look.

 

[dave]

Noobs he is already doing one of the three and it is working for his squat and deads, just not his bench and MP.

Skinnykid, How long have you been on the program for?

"Oh, good for you. Girls really like looking at big legs"

Good for them, gay guys love going to the gym to work on their biceps and pecs with other guys.

 

[Dancelot]

Girls dig strong legs & glutes. They're practical. Biceps and chesticles are useless in nature's tango.

Why are people saying his program is bad? Starting Strength works just fine and certainly can get a guy beyond a 70kg bench press. If a trainee performs exercises incorrectly, it doesn't matter what program he's on.

 

[Rugby88]

Things I have found with bench are:

- You need plenty of volume - we will hit bench/variations 2-3 times a week. (speed and max effort) - I do chuck in some higher volume db press from time to time also - i.e anywhere from 15-50 reps.

- Heaps of tricep work - myself and most of my guys will hit triceps 3-4 times a week - heavy board pressing, JM press, close grip, higher volume with band press downs.

- Upper back work - I do alot of face pulls, rear db raises - again done 2-3 times a week.

- Heavy heavy back work

Most importantly learn how to bench right - I honestly think its the hardest thing to teach - most of the time a form correction can lead to a good 10kg increase in bench right away.....but if your not benching right you wont go anywhere with it.

 

[JDizzle]

I've been on Starting Strength for about 8 months now.

theres your problem. fix it. im not saying SS is crap, i started out on it and loved it, but after 3-4 months you need to move onto something else.

 

[SkinnyKid]

Okay, at 84kg with 7 months of training, its clearly obvious your program is not working.

You seem dead against changing it.

Good luck with your 70kg bench press.

Sorry if I came off that way. I made adjustments to the program on my own and didn't benefit from it and just switched back to the original. That's why I wanted to get help from people with more experience and see if I could be pointed in the right direction otherwise I'd just be wasting more time.

Things I have found with bench are:

- You need plenty of volume - we will hit bench/variations 2-3 times a week. (speed and max effort) - I do chuck in some higher volume db press from time to time also - i.e anywhere from 15-50 reps.

- Heaps of tricep work - myself and most of my guys will hit triceps 3-4 times a week - heavy board pressing, JM press, close grip, higher volume with band press downs.

- Upper back work - I do alot of face pulls, rear db raises - again done 2-3 times a week.

- Heavy heavy back work

Most importantly learn how to bench right - I honestly think its the hardest thing to teach - most of the time a form correction can lead to a good 10kg increase in bench right away.....but if your not benching right you wont go anywhere with it.

Thanks for the input, I'll read up on those exercises. Yes, I agree that I should really learn how to bench properly before I make any changes.

theres your problem. fix it. im not saying SS is crap, i started out on it and loved it, but after 3-4 months you need to move onto something else.

What would you recommend me switch to?

 

[Oli]

Skinny,

Your friends are full of shit. Let them focus on the bench and score a powerlifting total the equivalent of a dog terd.

I edited starting strength a bit to give you more upper body work, which should improve your bench press a little:

Monday
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench/press (alternate)
5xfailure pull ups

Wednesday
3x5 squat
3x5 bench/press (alt)
1x5 deadlift

Friday
3x5 squat
3x5 bench/press (alt)
3-5x10 bent rows

 

[Goosey]

Oooh...
I sense a new market - empower yourself to train your own unique body. No doubt some cock scuker will now go right a manual on how to train yourself.
Opening line...One Size Fits All advice = Use your head, and find out what you really need, and not what someone tells yo
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[dave]

Skinnykid if the deads and squats are still moving up for you just change the upper body work, it is clearly not working after 7 months. Add in some dips, do benching more often, MP and BP on the same day 3 times a week, add in some rowing work, shit try anything. Personally I would suggest dips 3x Max reps until you can get 15 and then add weight. I suggest this as that is where I am weakest and what helps me best.

And even though Silverback is being a smart ass he makes a very good point for you.