Advice of Program

[tarrantula]

Hi All,

I'm 23, 6'3, 105kg, 20-25% BF and have been doing 5/3/1 for a few months but am starting to struggle moving up weights again. I haven't been doing squats/lunges due to a knee issue (so missing 1 day of a 4 day split of 5/3/1) and am trying to think of ways forward.

Firstly I feel I need to change up my workouts as they are getting a bit stale over the last few weeks and I want a really good 4 or 5 day split as I am about to go back to 5 days work from 4 and want to have a workout for M-T at minimum and maybe a weekend sessions too)

Trying to achieve more muscle mass/strength and less body fat. I am eating well @ about 2100 calories based on my macros 190/205/55 for P/C/F but I seem to be less inclined to eat well when I'm not training at full capacity. I used to be on 1500 calories a day so had metabolic damage and am trying to recover from this so I can be a leaner strong version that can handle 3000 a day (a while away but ill get there). I have been doing strengthening exercises to stop the painful clicking in my knees (apparently from my Vastus lateralis being too strong and overcompensating for my Vastus medialis) and have progressed enough that I'm ready to get back to legs.

So I've been doing a 3 day split for the last 3 months. D1: Deadlift , single arm row, DB pull overs
D2: Overhead press, Standing Upright rows, Seated DB press, Dumbell lateral raise, DB Side raise
D3: Flat BB Bench, Incline BB Bench, Incline peck flies, DB curls, dips

For Deadlift, bench and OH Press ive been following the program and using the % of 1RM and it has been working great until this month where I could no longer increase weight. I went from 75 > 85kg in Bench, 30 > 70kg deadlift and 30 > 50 kg in PH press.

I would then do the assistance work with a lower weight more like a 60-80% 1RM and try do 4x8/10.

I was liking this program but want to add some more exercises or get some training tips such as set/rep range and how to split up my exercise.

I would much prefer to lift weights than do cardio although dont mind doing a circuit.

So my main questions are how does this look:

Day 1:
• Overhead Shoulder press
• Standing Military press
• Seated DB should press
• Dumbbell Side raise
• Lateral raise.
Day 2:
• BB Bench Press
• Incline BB Bench Press
• Peck Flies
• Dips
• Thin grip bench press

Day 3:
• Deadlift
• Standing Barbell Row
• Single arm row
• Lat pull down
• Arnie Press

Day 4:
• Walking lunges
• Front squat
• Barbell Curl
• Calf raise
• DB hammer curl


Anyone have any suggestions about how I should split this up or anything I should add/replace?

PS. keep in mind I train at home with free weights and I have a rack for squat/ bench press - (planing or buying a powerrack in next month or so in which i would then plan to add proper dips / chin ups (if i can do more than 1)

 

[Big Mick]

Am I reading this wrong or are you saying you have stalled at a 70kg dead lift at a body weight of 105kg and 6'3" tall and 23 years of age

Seriously if that is the case re assess your training or get some coaching, and forget about fancy programs, may be re read the 5/3/1 book and get it straight in your head.

My misses dead lifts 90kg for reps and she is a 40 year old house wife with two kids and she does not really even train weights, apart from the occasional session.

 

[tarrantula]

oops thats meant to say 90kg for deadlift. And sorry its really only bench im struggling with. Believe it or not this is my first time doing deadlift and ive never had a very structured program and its gone from 30>90 in 12 weeks. And as i havent been doing any leg work due to my knee just being careful not to try push my deadlift too high too fast without doing the other (squat, lunges) exercises.

 

[Big Mick]

What I would be doing is re test your 1 rep max, then start another 3 month 5/3/1/cycle using your new 1 rep max.

Do minimal assistance and add some HIIT if you want to drop fat.

Don't go crazy on assistance exercises and flailing about with dumbbells and get the basics down, build a foundation of muscle and strength and keep adding weight.

5/3/1 progresses slow IMO thats why I like it, as a beginner you should probably be adding weight a lot faster, a 180kg dead lift should be a starting aim for you IMO.

May be read here:
http://ausbb.com/power-lifting-strength-training/9460-beginners-program.html

I had great success with this training three times a week:

You are a beginner if you cant bench 100kg, squat 140kg and deadlift 180kg. I dont care what your bodyweight is, get bigger, its why your lifting. Bodyweight is not an excuse.

I posted this up on another forum a year ago. The pissweak pencil neck poindexters all pointed out that it was biased against skinny guys. Crap. If your skinny, eat something. At the time Max weighed 60kg and wasnt remotely close to any of those lifts.

One year later he only has the bench to go, he is only a handful of kg's away. That sounds about right. If you train correctly, you should be able to achieve these goals in a year, regardless of bodyweight. Not many on here lighter than Max was, so no complaints.

The record for achieving all these lifts at PTC from complete beginner was Vocy, he did it in under 3 months from never touching a weight, he weighed 100kg. Benny did it in roughly the same, around 10 weeks.

Now, if your a beginner, here is what you need to do, for between 3-12 months.

Squat 3 x 10
Bench press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
Military press 3 x 8
SLDL 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

Do this 3 times a week. Progressively add weight.

If youve been training for longer than 12 months and cant make ALL those lifts, you've been kidding yourselves, wasting your time on rubbish.

If somebody gave you a pile of ****, and said it was free, would you keep it, simply cause its free? Of course not, you have no use for it.

Just because something is free doesnt mean its useful.

 

[Big Mick]

Obviously if you have issues/injuries you might have to work around them or rest certain muscles/body parts

 

[Snoochies]

Maybe even starting strength. I put a mate of mine through that who had never trained before and has similar lifts to you now but only weighs 75kg.

At 25% body fat, concentrate on the bigger lifts and work to reduce body fat, the accessory exercises will probably be more beneficial when your body fat is reduced.

 

[Big Mick]

At 25% body fat, concentrate on the bigger lifts and work to reduce body fat, the accessory exercises will probably be more beneficial when your body fat is reduced.

Exactly what I was trying t say, but you said it so much simpler

Concentrate on the big lifts, and smash them hard, get plenty of quality food and rest to recover between workouts and go again. Don't even worry about lateral raises and twenty thousand variations of arm curls.

 

[D1cko]

Stalling at 90kg for deadlift is ridiculous...unless you have an injury.
My opinion is that you shouldn't be doing 5/3/1 if your max deadlift is 90kg. My missus deadlift is at 90kg after 3 months of training, and she's only 60kg.
Go to something higher volume and don't worry about your 1rm for now.
I agree with Big Mick's post- do the beginner program for a while

 

[Big Mick]

Stalling at 90kg for deadlift is ridiculous...unless you have an injury.
My opinion is that you shouldn't be doing 5/3/1 if your max deadlift is 90kg. My missus deadlift is at 90kg after 3 months of training, and she's only 60kg.
Go to something higher volume and don't worry about your 1rm for now.
I agree with Big Mick's post- do the beginner program for a while

Yep personally I believe 5/3/1 is too slow progressing for a beginner, when I was on the beginners program (and I was not a beginner as such) I was adding weight every session or at least once a week.

Being older now and finding it hard to add weight the 5/3/1 seems perfect for me at this time in my training, as slow and steady is the key for over 40 lifters

And my lifts are nothing special and a bit on the weak side, as I don't purely train for strength but rather health and feeling good about myself.

 

[tarrantula]

I think I am going to go back to the beginner program until I reach closer to those totals. Yeah i've had knee problems for years and have not trained my legs properly and am only rehabing them properly now so think ill head back to the beginner program for a while.

Do you think its going to have much of an effect if I do it split like Bench, military and bent row one day then do deadlift, squat and BB curl another day?

I just dont like having like a day off in between and would prefer to do 6 smaller sessions than 3 longer ones. Just trying to make sure these workouts are still achiving what they are meant to and arent too small if i split it between 2 days. I did Day 1 yesterday and I can already feel this is what im meant to be doing rather than 5/3/1.

 

[D1cko]

I think I am going to go back to the beginner program until I reach closer to those totals. Yeah i've had knee problems for years and have not trained my legs properly and am only rehabing them properly now so think ill head back to the beginner program for a while.

Do you think its going to have much of an effect if I do it split like Bench, military and bent row one day then do deadlift, squat and BB curl another day?

I just dont like having like a day off in between and would prefer to do 6 smaller sessions than 3 longer ones. Just trying to make sure these workouts are still achiving what they are meant to and arent too small if i split it between 2 days. I did Day 1 yesterday and I can already feel this is what im meant to be doing rather than 5/3/1.

That's a good idea mate, the split will keep your sessions shorter too if time is a problem.
Good luck!!


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[Big Mick]

Yep sounds good, of you want to train 6 times a week, just split it in half.

 

[tarrantula]

Thats my plan. Bench, Military and bent row day 1 then day 2 is Squat, deadlift and BB curls.

Will i need to change this up after 3months or so to maybe incline bench, overhead press bent row and then lunges, SLDL, curls? or do you not think i'll need to change exercises around after a bit?

 

[D1cko]

Personally I would split like this:
1: Deadlift, MP, Curls
2: Squat, Bench, Rows...
Add other stuff where you see fit mate, if you must add, add chins and dips.... but do these basics first.

 

[Big Mick]

Thats my plan. Bench, Military and bent row day 1 then day 2 is Squat, deadlift and BB curls.

Will i need to change this up after 3months or so to maybe incline bench, overhead press bent row and then lunges, SLDL, curls? or do you not think i'll need to change exercises around after a bit?

Don't stress too much, no need to worry about the little stuff when you do the big stuff. You have heaps to gain on this program, should see you through at least 6-12 months.

Hit the exercises HARD and you will be amazed at what you will achieve.

 

[tarrantula]

Personally I would split like this:
1: Deadlift, MP, Curls
2: Squat, Bench, Rows...
Add other stuff where you see fit mate, if you must add, add chins and dips.... but do these basics first.

Sounds good to me. I actually like this split better. Yeah ok thanks for the advice i'll just stick to this and when i get my power rack (hopefully for xmas) ill add in chins and dips.

Cheers

 

[tarrantula]

Don't stress too much, no need to worry about the little stuff when you do the big stuff. You have heaps to gain on this program, should see you through at least 6-12 months.

Hit the exercises HARD and you will be amazed at what you will achieve.

Awesome looking forward to it. Feel much better about this than the 5/3/1 i was doing.

 

[judgey]

Thats my plan. Bench, Military and bent row day 1 then day 2 is Squat, deadlift and BB curls.

Will i need to change this up after 3months or so to maybe incline bench, overhead press bent row and then lunges, SLDL, curls? or do you not think i'll need to change exercises around after a bit?

It's up to you, but I couldn't imagine not doing incline bench and SLDLs.

 

[Big Mick]

Everyone is different, have never done SLDL in my life, not even once, and only done incline bench probably 20 times in the last 20 years, started doing incline bench a few month back and does not feel like it does anything that flat bench does not do better, so gave it the flick.

 

[judgey]

Everyone is different, have never done SLDL in my life, not even once, and only done incline bench probably 20 times in the last 20 years, started doing incline bench a few month back and does not feel like it does anything that flat bench does not do better, so gave it the flick.

Fair enough Mick.

I'm going to take a guess that you're a bigger, heavier set guy (maybe not over 5"10?)? I was showing a mate, who's just getting back into gym, conventional deads on the weekend and it was a real struggle. We are both about 6"1, but his legs and arms are just so damn long and it looked awkward for the first few sets. He managed to dead 80kg, but it wasn't pretty. Whereas, with the SLDL he can probably do a similar weight (perhaps lower, say 60kg) but really work the intended muscles (without fear of ruining his back). We took a video, I'm tempted to chuck it up (if he agrees) and see what you guys think - as it will be helpful for me too.

As for incline bench, that comment is based on the issues that seem to pop up in the shoulder from regular flat barbell bench and to avoid over-development of the bottom 1/2-2/3 of the chest.