Deadlifts vs. Deficit Deadlifts

[Brick]

Cana mod please change oni's handle to the Powerlifting Professor.

 

[0ni]

>want legitimate reasons to be supplied for statements made
>hurr durr strength training isn't a science

 

[callan]

Why do you say this?
Whenever I have done them, they have been real grinders to even get the bar moving. Finding it hard to think of a reason why they would be bad. I use sumo to improve my conventional pull though and have no interest in increasing my sumo pulls so maybe deficit sumo pulling changes the exercise too much I have no idea

because putting sumo deadlifts puts you into a goodmornin position to allow you to reach the bar, unless your super flexible, but the point of sumo isnt about speed. so with the bad positioning it actually makes it worse because you have to pull completely different hence why whenever you jave tried them they have been hard: goodmorning position

 

[Sticky]

GM position?
Not at our gym.

Intrigued about the speed thing though. Are you thinking more along the lines of flexing it off the floor?

 

[0ni]

because putting sumo deadlifts puts you into a goodmornin position to allow you to reach the bar, unless your super flexible, but the point of sumo isnt about speed. so with the bad positioning it actually makes it worse because you have to pull completely different hence why whenever you jave tried them they have been hard: goodmorning position

This makes more sense. It's a great deal of hip flexion needed to be able to get into a proper position if your stance is very wide. What do you think about using it as a developmental exercise for squatting/deadlifting (GPP) by building the muscles involved in these exercises as opposed to using it to directly build the sumo deadlift as a main exercise? (SPP)

BTW I will also state that lots of Sheiko's lifters pulled sumo and did deficit sumo pulls. Very little work was done from the floor but from plates or off plates

 

[callan]

GM position?
Not at our gym.

Intrigued about the speed thing though. Are you thinking more along the lines of flexing it off the floor?

lol

those looking for speed by doing deficits are already at their mac that their goin to get or sumo, so super wide stance etc, an those who are too flexible to do them efficently, so by doin deficits you either comprimise your position or are too flexible and making it worse but that only effects like 1% of sumo lifters, so the main argument is bed position to work on speed with deficits

 

[Sticky]

lol

those looking for speed by doing deficits are already at their mac that their goin to get or sumo, so super wide stance etc, an those who are too flexible to do them efficently, so by doin deficits you either comprimise your position or are too flexible and making it worse but that only effects like 1% of sumo lifters, so the main argument is bed position to work on speed with deficits

That makes zero sense man.

can you please re-write and type a bit more clearly, I can not understand a word you worte

 

[callan]

That makes zero sense man.

can you please re-write and type a bit more clearly, I can not understand a word you worte

shit re read that and can see why lol am typing between sets on my phone

basically by doing deficit sumo, you either compromise your position to a stage that it becomes detramental because if your chest is too far over to reach the bar tou have to use you back to break the floor and your hips will come up, an those who are flexible enough to do deficits properly are less efficient off the floor because they are too flexible. that make it any clearer??

 

[Sticky]

yeah thanks....

Tara for instance, her positioning doesnt change, though, she could be a little more upright off teh floor.

She is super flexible though, im not seeing how its going to be more detrimental pulling from plates, as long as her starting position doesnt change.

 

[callan]

yeah thanks....

Tara for instance, her positioning doesnt change, though, she could be a little more upright off teh floor.

She is super flexible though, im not seeing how its going to be more detrimental pulling from plates, as long as her starting position doesnt change.

thats what i mean by gm position, chest being too far over so ststing position is bad and so the deficits are not helping speed off the floor because stating position is bad, and the only way to do it properly is to increase flexibility and that hinders normal sumo off the floor

 

[Sticky]

no, no.......

Her position is THE SAME when she pulls off the floor.

Her pulls are identical, whether its a deficit or not.

 

[vonfram88]

So is 1-2" excessive ROM?

Possibly not.

If the task is a competition deadlift from the floor with standard equipment then it makes sense for the vast bulk of the training effort for that lift to involve exactly that movement. Although there are also some people who don't even deadlift in their off-season, so go figure.

Same argument could be had for powerlifting squats. If the objective is to get three white lights then do the bare minimum range of motion required to get three white lights. No one will be handing out ribbons for style.

I suppose the casual trainers such as myself who are pressed for time like to make excuses for not doing a huge number of variants of the lifts/accessory exercises. We invoke the "economy of training" argument, which is the antithesis of hardcore.

 

[callan]

squatting.... sumtin aint right
fuck wrong thread
thought was off topic

 

[The Hamburgler]

no, no.......

Her position is THE SAME when she pulls off the floor.

Her pulls are identical, whether its a deficit or not.

I think Callan means

different starting position on deficit = poor flexibility, no direct carryover to pulling from floor due to different body positioning

same starting position = super flexible, will have carryover to floor but may not be ideal because if you're flexible enough to pull from a deficit then there is no way you will get stretch reflex from the floor

 

[Bazza20]

I think Callan means

different starting position on deficit = poor flexibility, no direct carryover to pulling from floor due to different body positioning

same starting position = super flexible, will have carryover to floor but may not be ideal because if you're flexible enough to pull from a deficit then there is no way you will get stretch reflex from the floor

Do you agree though? I know I don't.

 

[The Hamburgler]

Not really lol

I can see where he is coming from re: stretch reflex but I don't think it has as much relevance deadlifting than it would squatting

 

[Sticky]

Thanks grah.

I agree that if your starting position changes while on the deficit, it won't have carry over, but the same is true for conventional. You'll actually noticed I warned fluffy to watch his brother for that exact reason.

I do not agree though that pulling from a small deficit will hinder your sumo, as long as your flexible enough to maintain form.

 

[Goosey]

As an aside, you must understand that it is *proper*resistance that is going to increase flexibility through a particular joint, that is, constant load or resistance from the fully stretched to the fully contracted posisition nothing else is even possible, pushing and holding a body part against an Immoveable object is not the same and in most cases, more dangerous.

 

[Goosey]

To add to that, reduced flexibility to me, means that a muscle is weak, it's a protective response.

All this "power" talk is nonsense, increase the strength of a muscle and you inturn increase its power and torque.

 

[callan]

I think Callan means

different starting position on deficit = poor flexibility, no direct carryover to pulling from floor due to different body positioning

same starting position = super flexible, will have carryover to floor but may not be ideal because if you're flexible enough to pull from a deficit then there is no way you will get stretch reflex from the floor

thats the one