Does Olympic weightlifting build strength?

[Brick]

Fadi very insightful words. Although Oni may well be baiting you for an argument his playing the antagonist has inadvertently lead to me (and probably others) getting an interesting insight into the training protocol of an elite competitive Olympic weightlifter. I really enjoyed following this thread thanks.

 

[Darkoz]

I'm sure Oni will get back to you Fadi as soon as he's finished scouring the Internet finding something he thinks he can use to argue with.
However, at the very least I and others here have benefitted from your knowledge in your exchange with the young man.

 

[0ni]

Two days ago, you said the following:
I’m still waiting!

Instead of getting back to me, today you chose to say the following about something else I wrote By the way Oni, my real name is Fadi and not fadi, please respect that Sir.

It appears to me that you're after an argument instead of a mature and fruitful man to man discussion, where perhaps some on here may benefit. After all, that's why we're all here, including myself. I’m not above learning, and I made that very clear here: One team: Ausbb

I was sincerely hoping that we could have a fruitful exchange of ideas between us, however I feel deeply saddened that that won’t come to fruition.

To the respectful and mature gentlemen on this thread/forum, I am at your service.


Fadi.

I've pretty much said all the points I need to say
If you don't want people commenting on your posts then don't post

 

[0ni]

I'm sure Oni will get back to you Fadi as soon as he's finished scouring the Internet finding something he thinks he can use to argue with.
However, at the very least I and others here have benefitted from your knowledge in your exchange with the young man.

I was actually helping out with the CFS at ANZAC day

 

[Fadi]

I've pretty much said all the points I need to say.

If you don't want people commenting on your posts then don't post

It was you and not I who said the following:

Fadi: I will get to your posts in the morning as I don't have time right now

Then when you did not meet your obligation as you've said above, I asked you for your comments, only to be accused now of not wanting you to comment!!!

I won't be rude and disrespectful to you as you have been to me, so I'll just wish you all the very best and I hope that one day you would learn to express yourself better without having to be offensive to others in the process. We grow and we learn, as life itself is the greatest of all teachers.

Have a good day Sir.

Peace.


Fadi.

 

[0ni]

I posted a summary of the arguments in the thread for and against the ME method in olympic weightlifting

For maximum effort method in weightlifting:
The old time greats all employed it, including those that hold records unbroken for 20 years
Many current record holders employ it, including the Chinese, Koklyaev, Klokov etc
Maximal strength is the prerequisite to all other types of strength, including speed-strength
Makes smaller weights feel lighter

Against maximum effort method in weightlifting:
Doesn't carry over directly to speed-strength, speed-strength needs to still be trained independently

I'd also like to add that Supertraining, Science and Practice of Strength Training and The Training of the Weightlifter all fully cover the usage of the ME method in Olympic weightlifting

This is all I have to to say on the subject now, that was my rebuttal

 

[Darkoz]

I was actually helping out with the CFS at ANZAC day

Good for you, well done
There's always plenty of time for Internet searching!

 

[wingman]

I've pretty much said all the points I need to say
If you don't want people commenting on your posts then don't post

Yea good on you. I don't like advice from Fadi either. He's not been doing this stuff longer than we've been alive or anything.

 

[0ni]

Good for you, well done
There's always plenty of time for Internet searching!

Well tbh the evidence for the max effort method in weightlifting is compelling
As much as you and others don't like me you must be able to see that it is obviously some use when Chinese lifters are squatting 200 at age 17, Koklyaev totalling 985kg raw a few months out from London 2012 and so on

It's not as if I scoured the internet looking for exceptions, loads of people are doing it

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSVV7d146FE]Koklyaev - 400KGx3 Deadlift - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kenjwp17Upo]Chinese style clean pull? Zhang Jie 62kg class - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Fadi]

Against maximum effort method in weightlifting:
Doesn't carry over directly to speed-strength, speed-strength needs to still be trained independently

You cannot be serious! Now you are making things up. Not only making things up, but also saying the exact opposite of what I had said.

Above you say:

speed-strength needs to still be trained independently

That's what you have been saying all along by talking about a purely strength exercise such as the deadlift, while I've been saying it over and over and over again that I would not do the deadlift (which is a strength dependent movement) but the pulls, which is a combination of both strength and speed, which is what the power formula is made of!

I rest my case. Seriously young man, if you want to quote me on something next time, do it factually and honestly, or do not do it at all! Thank you very much.

PS: I looked under your avatar and I saw 20+ years experience. Now I looked at your profile and I find you’re a 22 year old man! My fault for not looking carefully.


Fadi.

 

[0ni]

So Fadi, in one sentence what is your problem with the ME method in weightlifting?

 

[Darkoz]

PS: I looked under your avatar and I saw 20+ years experience. Now I looked at your profile and I find you’re a 22 year old man! My fault for not looking carefully.

As you've found out Fadi, that's just one of the things that don't add up with Oni!

 

[Fadi]

Well tbh the evidence for the max effort method in weightlifting is compelling

As much as you and others don't like me you must be able to see that it is obviously some use when Chinese lifters are squatting 200 at age 17, Koklyaev totalling 985kg raw a few months out from London 2012 and so on
It's not as if I scoured the internet looking for exceptions, loads of people are doing it
Koklyaev - 400KGx3 Deadlift - YouTube

Here we go yet again. Do you know what Mikhail Koklyaev best clean and jerk is? It's 250kg (why did you fail to mention that to the forum)? Now let's look at his other huge powerlifting weights.

Squat: 365kg
Bench: 240kg
Deadlift: 415kg

Can you see the difference here? 415kg deadlift, that should make 250kg C&J a pathetic lift especially for a trained weightlifter wouldn't you think? How about the 365kg squat? Again, why only 250kg C&J if all that strength is carried over?!

As I have said before, if that's what you believe is happening around the world of Olympic weightlifting, then perhaps you should keep it a secret and train yourself and others that way in order to make mincemeat of all those current weightlifting world records!


Fadi.

 

[Fadi]

So Fadi, in one sentence what is your problem with the ME method in weightlifting?

I think before you ask me another question, you ought to apologise for the way you have been conducting yourself with me, especially when I have not be disrespectful to you in any way.

I don’t understand your question. What is the ME method in weightlifting?


Fadi.

 

[0ni]

Why do you think a 415kg deadlift would make a 250kg C+J (13kg off WR) a pathetic lift Fadi?
Koklyaev is yet another example of a lifter that got strong as shit and is dominating international competition

ME method = max effort method

 

[Fadi]

Why do you think a 415kg deadlift would make a 250kg C+J (13kg off WR) a pathetic lift Fadi?
Koklyaev is yet another example of a lifter that got strong as shit and is dominating international competition

ME method = max effort method

I have nothing to say to you anymore.


Fadi.

 

[0ni]

Pyrros Dimas personal bests:
Snatch: 183.0 Kg
Clean and Jerk: 215.0 Kg
Olympic (full) Front Squat: 280.0 Kg
(Full) Back Squat: 330.0 Kg
Clean Pull: 230.0 Kg
Deadlift: 290.0 Kg
Power Snatch: 155.0 Kg

Guess Pyrros is wasting his time lifting heavy, deadlifting 75kg over his clean + jerk best

 

[Bazza20]

Here we go yet again. Do you know what Mikhail Koklyaev best clean and jerk is? It's 250kg (why did you fail to mention that to the forum)? Now let's look at his other huge powerlifting weights.

Squat: 365kg
Bench: 240kg
Deadlift: 415kg

Can you see the difference here? 415kg deadlift, that should make 250kg C&J a pathetic lift especially for a trained weightlifter wouldn't you think? How about the 365kg squat? Again, why only 250kg C&J if all that strength is carried over?!

As I have said before, if that's what you believe is happening around the world of Olympic weightlifting, then perhaps you should keep it a secret and train yourself and others that way in order to make mincemeat of all those current weightlifting world records!


Fadi.

I haven't read much of this thread but will all due respect fadi in what world do we live in were a 250Kg clean and J is a pathetic lift when compared to a 415 deadlift.

 

[Darkoz]

Well done Oni, your amazing talent has even managed to piss off one the most patient and respectful members here.
I shall recommend you to all my friends when they suffer from constipation.

 

[0ni]

Mendes: 350 kg deadlift for reps, 175 kg snatch.
Henry: 425 kg deadlift, 180 kg snatch.
Perepetchenov: 290kg deadlift, 320kg squat, 175 kg snatch