Frequency

[Rambodian]

So from a muscle building stand point, what is the best in terms of frequency of training a muscle group?

There seems to be debate on the once a week or twice a week frequency. Than you have the guys that say every 4th day or every 5th day etc. Than their is the whole body training hitting all muscle groups 3 times a week.

Is it all a personal thing?
Is there a definite formula?
Is there a reason for using a 7day week for training as opposed to hitting the muscle when its ready?

Than there is volume, and how does this play into frequency

Lets discuss this, I am interested in all your thoughts on the matter. There seams to be much ambiguity in this area. I am hoping some of the more experienced people on here can enlighten us a bit.

I put this in the bodybuilding section as I want to discuss this from a muscle building point of view, instead of just max strength etc. Even though we can all agree that getting stronger is part of getting bigger, I am after a bodybuilding discussion.

Thanks
Graeme

 

[Bazza20]

I don't think there is any best frequency and it depends on the volume you use when you do workout the muscle.

Greater volume per workout would require lower frequency.

One thing though too low frequency and your body gets deconditioned to the exercise and its like you have to relearn the exercise over again as well as getting bad doms all the time.

 

[0ni]

logically you'd just need to get as many growth periods per year as possible, while still allowing for adequate recovery but enough volume to recover

It's going to differ massively from person to person really, if anyone says that X frequency is best then they are flat out lying. The Chinese Olympic team are pretty fucking jacked though

 

[Neddysmith]

I don't think there is anything definate in bbing and it all comes down to trying different things and working out what works best for the individual, personally I like training a muscle group once a week but that comes down to when I am able to train and, y workout routine, I have trained a body part twice a week and white liked it but found I had to spend too much time in the gym for what I wanted to achieve.

But in saying this if I really up the intensity and smash myself in the gym I don't think my body could handle working out muscles groups more than once a week.

 

[Rambodian]

Yes I definitely have personally corelated intensity (measured by weight used being high) with lower frequency being optimal and to the contrary, when intensity is lower i can train more often.

But one thing I have not noticed, probably due to being a relatively new person to weight training (less than a year) is whether my muscles grow faster or slower with high intensity low frequency or low intensity higher frequency.

I know one thing though, when I try to up the frequency to more than once every 6-7 days with higher intensity, I usually end up hurt. Intensity plays a major role with my body ability to heal properly.

But as Bazz said, the less you train a muscle group, the more DOMS you get. I find that is exactly what happens to me when I train muscle groups once every 7 days. But like you Neddy, I find that it's my schedule that plays into the once a week training more than anything. When I try to increase frequency I tend to end up missing days more often etc.

But since I hurt my shoulder pretty bad the other week, lower intensity and higher frequency is starting to appeal to me.

 

[Rambodian]

logically you'd just need to get as many growth periods per year as possible, while still allowing for adequate recovery but enough volume to recover

It's going to differ massively from person to person really, if anyone says that X frequency is best then they are flat out lying. The Chinese Olympic team are pretty fucking jacked though

So I guess you could say that training more frequently has the ability to add more growth periods for an entire year, that makes sense.
But than volume must be considered here too, as well as intensity. If one was to train their muscle group every day (full body say), than would it be best to have low volume? or intensity? or both?

I would think keeping intensity as high as possible, yet still low enough to keep the CNS in tact would be the best. But then how would you play the volume card? to high and you would wreck.

 

[Bazza20]

You can adapt to high frequency with high intensity. Perfect example is oly weightlifters who train Bulgarian style squatting up to max possible for the day every day.

 

[Rambodian]

How do you know from a muscle building perspective when the muscle group is healed?

Is it when there is no DOMS?

What's the best way to know this?

I ask as it plays a vital role in muscle growth, does it not?

Bodybuilding and such can get technical when you think about it, I have always tried to apply the KISS principle, but since I haven't been able to work out for 2 weeks now it has got me thinking as to how best to approach my training.

 

[Rambodian]

You can adapt to high frequency with high intensity. Perfect example is oly weightlifters who train Bulgarian style squatting up to max possible for the day every day.

Do they have high or low volume though bazz? Do you know how they would work that out, or is it trial and erra etc, person to person.

 

[Bazza20]

How do you know from a muscle building perspective when the muscle group is healed?

Is it when there is no DOMS?

What's the best way to know this?

I ask as it plays a vital role in muscle growth, does it not?

Bodybuilding and such can get technical when you think about it, I have always tried to apply the KISS principle, but since I haven't been able to work out for 2 weeks now it has got me thinking as to how best to approach my training.

You don't know and you don't need to know. If you are progressing in the long term you are doing something right.

 

[Bazza20]

Do they have high or low volume though bazz? Do you know how they would work that out, or is it trial and erra etc, person to person.

Some have very high volume but they build up to it over years.

I tried squatting to a daily max and it worked well. You don't need to be fully recovered to work out again.

 

[Rambodian]

Some have very high volume but they build up to it over years.

I tried squatting to a daily max and it worked well. You don't need to be fully recovered to work out again.

So you would say it's a matter of adapting/getting use to doing it?

That makes sense, and most oly lifters have legs that any bodybuilder would love to have. But in general, would you say more frequency is generally better?
I ask because it seams allot of people are worried about over training these days. I am the opposite, I worry I am not training enough to stimulate the muscle to hypertrophy and gain strength enough once a week and by trying to maintain a high intensity (for me anyway ) has led to an injury (that and prob not great form). Even though I only been training each muscle group once every 7day week.

 

[Bazza20]

I think you are over complicating it, there is no perfect program or frequency. Just pick a program that you enjoy and work hard at it.

 

[Alpha Moth]

getting to a point when you have "overtrained" is hard as fuck, and muscles recover very well.
in terms of hitting muscles per week
lyle mcdonald + several others think for natural trainees 2-3 times a week is best. with 2 being the best option.

 

[Bazza20]

getting to a point when you have "overtrained" is hard as fuck, and muscles recover very well.
in terms of hitting muscles per week
lyle mcdonald + several others think for natural trainees 2-3 times a week is best. with 2 being the best option.

Yeah. Most could never overtrain even if they tried. They could get tired but proper overtraining is different from just being a bit fatigued.

 

[0ni]

So I guess you could say that training more frequently has the ability to add more growth periods for an entire year, that makes sense.
But than volume must be considered here too, as well as intensity. If one was to train their muscle group every day (full body say), than would it be best to have low volume? or intensity? or both?

I would think keeping intensity as high as possible, yet still low enough to keep the CNS in tact would be the best. But then how would you play the volume card? to high and you would wreck.

If you want to train high frequency I'd aim to keep total volume per week the same and ramp the intensity up. So if you normally do 5x10 for bench once a week (50 lifts), 10x1x85% 5 times a week would be a nice start. Obviously if you're doing singles then shorten the rest periods right down otherwise you probably wouldn't fatigue the muscles enough to build

I honestly think though that increasing total weekly volume over 80% + adequate fatigue (low rest periods) + food = muscle. Just as simple as that really. Everything is fluff. If you're increasing all your lifts and eating a surplus then you're going to get bigger, no two ways about it lol

 

[0ni]

Also I've not managed to overtrain yet, despite my best efforts. I really wouldn't worry about it unless your doing shit loads of drop sets etc

 

[Neddysmith]

IMO the average gym goer or BBer is of no chance of overtraining as their intensity and frequency just isnt there to overtrain, the biggest issue is my eyes for these who claim overtraining is either not getting enough cals into their diet for the training they are doing or not getting enough sleep/rest OR a combination of both.

See some of the top competative BBers and Oly lifters, they may train 2 or 3 times a day, BUT they will generally be eating a shit load and most will also have a sleep during the day between workouts.

 

[Rambodian]

I read a good artical on eliteFTS the other day about Dave Tate turning to bodybuilding after years of powerlifting. He basically had so many injuries built up over the years that he was struggling to strain under the weight, at the end of the artical he said he had enjoyed his bout of bodybuilding but the only thing he would change is to increase the frequency to 2 times a week for muscle groups.
I laughed at this because he obviously (going by story and pics) had put on allot of muscle and changed his physique by only doing a muscle group once every 7 days.

 

[Rambodian]

I think you are over complicating it, there is no perfect program or frequency. Just pick a program that you enjoy and work hard at it.

I agree with that statement, but am interested in what people think, hence the discussion.
What I'm really after is the 'why' you think like this or that, what makes you have this ideology?

I have a program that I do and pretty much will stay the same but may change frequency/volume and or intensity to suit. The exercises won't change, just how I use them. This is why I am personally very interested in the 'why' people think and do their training a certain way.