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PA lifters at ProRaw Rep Challenge

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Pretty silly situation.

If a member of a drug tested federation abides by the rules, the he or she will still be subject to random drug testing.

If a comp can be organised with no affiliation to one federation, then it should not really matter, but i guess it comes down to politics in sport (the importance of one federation over another).

BTW, does the Arnold Classic (which the IPF is involved in) have drug testing for all involved sports (including bodybuilding).

If it does not, then this would be somewhat inconsistent with what is happening in Australia.
 
When i say drug testing, i mean full random testing over a period before the comp rather than at the comp alone, or simply for diuretics. In other words, the same drug testing rules that apply to the USAPL or PA.
 
I agree that it's not an ASADA issue, but it's not simply a matter of PA's regulations. It's about ASC recognition.

The Australian Sports Commission (ASC) that gives recognition to sports governing bodies, not ASADA. The level of recognition PA has with the ASC means that the ASC (Commonwealth Government) funds all drug testing of PA by ASADA. This is all the government funding PA gets so it's crucial that this recognition is maintained.

It's the ASC that only recognises one body per sport not ASADA. This has been the situation for many years.

ASADA just do testing, and deal with sanctions etc when it detects doping. To be ASC recognised you need to have a WADA compliant anti-doping policy and have ASADA do the testing.

But there is nothing stopping ProRaw bringing in a WADA compliant anti-doping policy if it wanted and get ASADA to do the testing. ADFPA technically has such a policy but query how many tests they actually conduct each year, without ASC recognition and the funding to actually do testing. So, if you wanted an anti-doping policy that actually has some teeth and is actually enforced it would be prohibitively expensive. To do the amount of testing PA does, you'd probably need to spend over 100K a year. Only the AFLs of this world can pay for their own testing (and the AFL does this so they can get more tests done than the ASC would otherwise be able to conduct). PA is one of the good guys in the IPF from an anti-doping perspective, but it simply could not do this without ASC funding.

When I have enquired about this, and I'm happy to be corrected on details, this is all about ASC recognition, and the conditions upon which they fund anti-doping for PA. It doesn't come from ASADA, so you won't get an answer from them.

Because clean sport is one of the central goals of the ASC, it makes sense that the ASC has reservations about funding PA's anti-doping activities if its members then go and compete in non-ASC sanctioned events. The situation with ASC funding for powerlifting is much more delicate than other sports because of the history of drug abuse, and the well-documented drugs-in-sports senate inquiry. In order to maintain this funding, PA or its members cannot be seen to be in any way affiliated with a non-tested version of the sport.

So, why is weightlifting different? Well, the AWF is the only governing body for the sport. Weightlifters aren't going around competing in events organised by non-sanctioned weightlifting federations, because there are none. There may be unsanctioned events going on, but the situation for them is much less delicate for them because there is no organised non-tested body regularly hosting national events or anything like that. Although to be honest I would be surprised if the ASC would not complain to AWF if it actually knew AWF lifters competed in CAPO powerlifting comps.

If PA lifters are competing in a sport which isn't powerlifting and doesn't look like powerlifting, eg traditional strongman (which the ASC has said it has no issue with), this does not risk PA's ASC recognition because the "funded" members aren't participating in a non-drug tested version of the sport.

The closest situation to powerlifting is boxing. Boxing has numerous amateur and professional federations as well as an IOC recognised version of the sport. Guess what, Boxing Australia Inc, the IOC affiliated fed which is recognised by the ASC, has the same requirement as PA regarding non-sanctioned events.

See clause 8 on page 8 of Boxing Australia's by laws: http://www.boxingaustralia.org.au/documents/2009baibylawsamendedJuly2.pdf

The restriction extends to boxing-like bouts, specifically Toughman. I'm sure there would be lots of arguments about whether it would extend to other boxing-like sports (eg non-sanctioned kickboxing).

There is a separate issue with the PA regulations that PerthMac identified.

spartacus said:
BTW, does the Arnold Classic (which the IPF is involved in) have drug testing for all involved sports (including bodybuilding).

If it does not, then this would be somewhat inconsistent with what is happening in Australia.
Click to expand...

The Arnold Sports Festival includes sports that aren't drug tested, but the situation in the US is very different from Australia due to the way the ASC operates - as explained above.
 
Strong enough.

Good points, but why should the ASC not have an interest in the IPF (and associated federations) being associated with an event (Arnold Classic) that does not appropriate drug testing in line with what it expects (even if its is offshore).
 
IPF lifters competing at the Arnold were subject to drug-testing. It was an IPF sanctioned international event. AFAIK PA lifters could enter if they qualified and wanted to go over.

This issue isn't about powerlifters competing in a sanctioned powerlifting event which happens to be hosted by a festival which also hosts non-tested sports. It's a completely different situation.
 
Well then Marko can organise a similar festival, a strength festival.

The fact that the ASC has a policy about not been associated with untested sport events, means they should have an interest in what is going on with federations it supports.

Don't you agree.

In fact, I may write to the ASC when i get a chance. I may even write an article on a political site i write for. The ASC (and public) should, at the very least, be made aware of the situation.

We must always have consistency, don't you think?
 
spartacus said:
Well then Marko can organise a similar festival, a strength festival.

The fact that the ASC has a policy about not been associated with untested sport events, means they should have an interest in what is going on with federations it supports.

Don't you agree.

In fact, I may write to the ASC when i get a chance. I may even write an article on a political site i write for. The ASC (and public) should, at the very least, be made aware of the situation.

We must always have consistency, don't you think?
Click to expand...

I think you've missed the point. I don't think there is any issue with being "associated" with untested sport events. It's about competing in your sport which is organised by a non-tested, non-ASC recognised body. I think my long post explains the issue sufficiently. As I explained above, your hypothetical is a completely different situation.

The issue is what constitutes "powerlifting". The problem here is that a strength challenge involve squats out of racks, bench press and deadlift all using the barbell would be perceived to be very close to powerlifting.

But I'm sure if Markos is keen on having a strength contest which PA lifters can take part in, he can and will find a way to make it happen.
 
Strong Enough, thankyou for clearing that up, your post certainly explained the situation.

strong enough? said:
Because clean sport is one of the central goals of the ASC, it makes sense that the ASC has reservations about funding PA's anti-doping activities if its members then go and compete in non-ASC sanctioned events. The situation with ASC funding for powerlifting is much more delicate than other sports because of the history of drug abuse, and the well-documented drugs-in-sports senate inquiry. In order to maintain this funding, PA or its members cannot be seen to be in any way affiliated with a non-tested version of the sport.
Click to expand...

I still can't get my head around how a lifter competing in a non-ASC sanctioned event brings down the ASC sanctioned event.

On a side note, it seems like any lifter competing in a non-tested event is assumed to be taking drugs.
 
yes, it is an opinion. Not ashamed of that.

But, we have a situation where the ASC (and/or PA) can determine the consequences of any lifter who associates itself with a federation or event not subject to stringent drug testing.

Well, given that the ASC has rules in regard to its associated federations, why is the IPF (and affiliations) able to benefit from different rules in different countries in terms of publicity for itself when it is supposed to be seeking consistency in all member countries. Sure, the IPF in the US has stringent testing, but it is a 'fact' that it promotes itself in a major event where such testing does not apply across the board.

As you have deemed myself to be an uninformed opinion, can anyone please explain why that is the case?

After all, Markos has sought to offer an event that is hardly based on single lifts for squat, bench and dead lift. Doing reps may indeed offer vastly different results than who may be best at single lifts.
 
Strong enough,

Yes i agree that there should be many ways for Markos to make it happen.

After all, we all use knives and forks to eat vastly different meals at different ethnic restaurants. Barbells may be barbells, but how we use them to test our strength can be determined in many ways.

Nevertheless, I am going to write to the ASC (and elsewhere) for a please explain about the actions of certain affiliated sporting organisations.

I have long been curious how an organisation can have vastly different criteria in different nations.
 
Spartacus, I don't see what your issue is with the Arnold. The Powerlifting event is one event out of multiple sports, some tested some not.
No-one thinks the strongman and bodybuilding is drugfree. Brian Siders, who is the top IPF heavyweight in the USA has competed in the Arnold strongman ( didn't do well ) without any sanction a couple of times. One year he even competed in powerlifting 1 day then strongman the next.

I should clarify the weightlifting part, I know a couple of masters lifters who compete actively in AWF at masters level, and coach and the AWF has no issue with them competing elsewhere, however I also know of a junior lifter who is in a AWF training program who has been banned from competing in all other strength sports like allround weightlifting and powerlifting. This is a case of the AWF protecting their investment in funding and ensuring the athlete is not risking injury outside of weightlifting.

The other issue that no-one has brought up is there's only so many events you can peak for in a year. There's plenty of events in the PA Calender, or CAPO/Pro raw Calender, without needing to do any of the others.
Just choose a side and lift to the best of you ability and the rules or your particular sport.
Much as people from the CAPO side like to promote, it's not the same sport, the rules are different.
 
PTC said:
Is Minh telling furfies again. He said its ASADA's call, not PA's

ASADA are made out to villains, but it appears they are not, as with allowing WL compete in PL, and a non tested Fed.

For the record, CAPO nor ProRaw can join ASADA, as they only recognize one Fed.

I will eliminate the ProRaw name from this comp if it allows lifters from everywhere to compete.

Some lifter from PA needs to contact ASADA and find out if they can lift or not.

Minh said PA wont stop anyone, its all ASADA
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I have a court case pending against PA, Wilks and his organisation are trying to use ASADA as a scapegoat to avoid being held accountable for their discriminatory actions, so it does not surprise me one bit that this is taking place.http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discriminatory
 
No problem with the Arnold classic.

Problem for me is that Markos should have every opportunity to offer a similar approach to strength events in Australia. He may want to call it the Markos Festival of Sport or something similar, although I would hope Markos would not want to see his name in lights.

What I am interested in is consistency.

I don't know Markos, but let us remember that his efforts to boost the interest in strength does not benefit from taxypayer funds. Hence, I would like to see his efforts less hindered by the status quo.

I argue that someone genuinely interested in the sport of strength should not be stopped in his tracks from conducting an event that many on this site would like to see.
 
PerthMac said:
Spartacus, I don't see what your issue is with the Arnold. The Powerlifting event is one event out of multiple sports, some tested some not.
No-one thinks the strongman and bodybuilding is drugfree. Brian Siders, who is the top IPF heavyweight in the USA has competed in the Arnold strongman ( didn't do well ) without any sanction a couple of times. One year he even competed in powerlifting 1 day then strongman the next.

I should clarify the weightlifting part, I know a couple of masters lifters who compete actively in AWF at masters level, and coach and the AWF has no issue with them competing elsewhere, however I also know of a junior lifter who is in a AWF training program who has been banned from competing in all other strength sports like allround weightlifting and powerlifting. This is a case of the AWF protecting their investment in funding and ensuring the athlete is not risking injury outside of weightlifting.

The other issue that no-one has brought up is there's only so many events you can peak for in a year. There's plenty of events in the PA Calender, or CAPO/Pro raw Calender, without needing to do any of the others.
Just choose a side and lift to the best of you ability and the rules or your particular sport.
Much as people from the CAPO side like to promote, it's not the same sport, the rules are different.
Click to expand...

a true warrior is always ready for battle no need to peak... harden up princess.
 
g-unit said:
Im coming down tomo with Minh to be a mediator bro....

Btw do you need any of my over expensive Total Science Sustain? :eek:
Click to expand...

No need for Minh to come. He told us its not a PA decision, its ASADA.

Minh does not run PA either, the boss needs to fix this, not his helper.

I'm pretty flat out on Thursday.

Were teaching flat back benching, Minh can sign up for a class if he likes
 
Rep Challenges are not a sport

ASADA is welcome to come test

I'll call it whatever they want

I will bend over backwards to have anyone that wants to lift, lift

Seems that the issue will be with PA, not anyone else.

The fight may have to come from PA lifters. I dont want them quitting PA to lift in a rep challenge. Australia needs as many registered PL as possible if this sport is to grow.

CAPO are all behind their lifters lifting, I thought I'd put that out there.

If anyone from PA that can actually do something, not ring there boss and ask, wants to contact me, I'm available every day
 
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