PWO carbs - Simple Carbs Vital?

[rileybb]

Hey guys, i've recently been reading in alot of threads/web pages that either dextrose, maltodextrin or waxy maize starch be used PWO to ensure a quick supply of nutrients throughout the body. I was wondering if there is much difference in say, mixing whey protein with milk (low fat or skim), or buying some of the aforementioned simple carbs (dex, malt, WMS) and mixing whey protein with that. I'm not sure if it's worth buying these simple carbs when instead i can mix with milk, oats etc

 

[Fadi]

Hey guys, i've recently been reading in alot of threads/web pages that either dextrose, maltodextrin or waxy maize starch be used PWO to ensure a quick supply of nutrients throughout the body. I was wondering if there is much difference in say, mixing whey protein with milk (low fat or skim), or buying some of the aforementioned simple carbs (dex, malt, WMS) and mixing whey protein with that. I'm not sure if it's worth buying these simple carbs when instead i can mix with milk, oats etc

Riley,

Milk defeats the purpose here since it's either full of fat or no fat but casein, (the main protein in milk). Great before bed time but not so great after/before a workout if your aim is to raise insulin (and my aim is to do just that).

Also, WMS is designed in such a way as to be in and out of the stomach in a flash. By adding milk to it, you defeat its design and the intention it was made to serve.

Whey protein is pure protein that has gone through a process to make it pure. By adding milk, you are basically reversing what the manufacturer has done and what you had paid him for.

Casein is great say 1 hour after training but not immediately after. Everything has its place; everything. Can you see what I'm saying Riley?

PS: Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. All the best to you Sir.


Fadi.

 

[rileybb]

Riley,

Milk defeats the purpose here since it's either full of fat or no fat but casein, (the main protein in milk). Great before bed time but not so great after/before a workout if your aim is to raise insulin (and my aim is to do just that).

Also, WMS is designed in such a way as to be in and out of the stomach in a flash. By adding milk to it, you defeat its design and the intention it was made to serve.

Whey protein is pure protein that has gone through a process to make it pure. By adding milk, you are basically reversing what the manufacturer has done and what you had paid him for.

Casein is great say 1 hour after training but not immediately after. Everything has its place; everything. Can you see what I'm saying Riley?

PS: Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. All the best to you Sir.


Fadi.

Thanks Fadi, yes that clears things up a fair bit. Another question, if simple sugars are best to have PWO instead of slower digesting carbs/protein, couldn't sugar/fruit be used instead?

 

[Fadi]

Thanks Fadi, yes that clears things up a fair bit. Another question, if simple sugars are best to have PWO instead of slower digesting carbs/protein, couldn't sugar/fruit be used instead?

Riley,

When you say sugar, that means one thing to me. When you say fruit, that means something else to me. When you say fruit sugar, again that means something else to me still.

So, before giving you an answer, only to find that I didn't understand your question; would you be kind enough to clarify it please. Thank you Riley.


Fadi.

 

[Sandslash]

It doesn't matter what GI your postworkout carb source is, as long as you don't neglect preworkout nutrition. Only athletes who train to glyogen depletion more than once per day might benefit from high-GI postworkout carbs. Otherwise, have the carb source of your personal preference.

 

[azza]

Having fast acting carbs after a workout is fine, then eat about a hour later. When bulking i use International Protein Extreme carbs for when i want carbs, i use these before bed and after workout and i mean like 1 minute after the last rep. You could also add other goodies like L-Glutamine and other amino acids. For creatine loading grape juice is the fastest uptake after training. The oats are good in the morning shake, check out Fadi's breakfast shake thread.
AZZA

 

[Shame]

Riley,

Milk defeats the purpose here since it's either full of fat or no fat but casein, (the main protein in milk). Great before bed time but not so great after/before a workout if your aim is to raise insulin (and my aim is to do just that).

Also, WMS is designed in such a way as to be in and out of the stomach in a flash. By adding milk to it, you defeat its design and the intention it was made to serve.

Whey protein is pure protein that has gone through a process to make it pure. By adding milk, you are basically reversing what the manufacturer has done and what you had paid him for.

Casein is great say 1 hour after training but not immediately after. Everything has its place; everything. Can you see what I'm saying Riley?

PS: Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like. All the best to you Sir.


Fadi.

Good to see you've come around to my way of thinking.

p.s. Referring to a similar discussion on another board.

 

[BoyFromAus]

Fadi, what about for endomorphs or people who're slightly insulin resistant... Is Dextrose or WMS loading Post-WO necessary?

And after a workout (intense 45 min workout), wont there still be some glycogen in the body?

 

[BoyFromAus]

It doesn't matter what GI your postworkout carb source is, as long as you don't neglect preworkout nutrition. Only athletes who train to glyogen depletion more than once per day might benefit from high-GI postworkout carbs. Otherwise, have the carb source of your personal preference.

I was thinking along the same lines, hence I asked Fadi in the previous post.

My question arose because day-before-yesterday I had glucose syrup with my protein for post-WO and I felt very bloated. Yesterday i had skim milk powder with my protein and it was the worst stomach pain in my life.

 

[Fadi]

It doesn't matter what GI your postworkout carb source is, as long as you don't neglect preworkout nutrition. Only athletes who train to glyogen depletion more than once per day might benefit from high-GI postworkout carbs. Otherwise, have the carb source of your personal preference.

Very interesting. Does that mean I can have some apple juice Sandslash? There are some bodybuilders who beleive in what is called by some biochemistry Ph.Ds. as the window of opportunity that is at its highest level within 45 minutes after training. And then there are bodybuilders who think that this is just some hype to push carbohydrates that is sold by some supplement companies. I happen to belong to the first group and do respect the fact that others disagree. Here's some material for you to read on the subject if you're interested:

http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=746224

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi23.htm

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/64/4/1480

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=R7g2xi67OIoC&pg=PA120&lpg=PA120&dq=muscle+glycogen+synthesis+after+exercise+effect+of+time+of+carbohydrate+ingestion&source=bl&ots=b_XdhzY5gW&sig=2RJqR_EJVcCG6a3n01eXEdE-N7E&hl=en&ei=AOjeSpDZFoj6kAWNluwU&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=muscle%20glycogen%20synthesis%20after%20exercise%20effect%20of%20time%20of%20carbohydrate%20ingestion&f=false


Fadi.

 

[Fadi]

Having fast acting carbs after a workout is fine, then eat about a hour later. When bulking i use International Protein Extreme carbs for when i want carbs, i use these before bed and after workout and i mean like 1 minute after the last rep. You could also add other goodies like L-Glutamine and other amino acids. For creatine loading grape juice is the fastest uptake after training. The oats are good in the morning shake, check out Fadi's breakfast shake thread.
AZZA

Sandslash, if you do choose to take some time and read the studies I've presented for you, you'd find they 100% in agreement with what azza has said above. Thank you.


Fadi.

 

[Fadi]

Good to see you've come around to my way of thinking.

p.s. Referring to a similar discussion on another board.

I've always been there I thought! And yes, you did give such an answer to T2 on another forum which I totally support, (your answer that is).


Fadi.

 

[Fadi]

Fadi, what about for endomorphs or people who're slightly insulin resistant... Is Dextrose or WMS loading Post-WO necessary?

Ok, let me deal with your first question first. By the way Rasika, I think both of your questions are just amazing, thank you.

Muscle cells are extremely sensitive to the effect of insulin immediately after your workout and then they quickly become insulin resistant. That is why as I've said to Sandslash, I belong to that group of bodybuilders who believe in the "window of opportunity" post workout.

Taking in a PWO drink of carb/protein as I've outlined in my 2200 cal eating plan, actually prevents the development of insulin resistance according to professors/scientists John Ivy and Robert Portman in their book on page 70 called nutrient timing.

And after a workout (intense 45 min workout), wont there still be some glycogen in the body?

Yes most definitely there would still be some glycogen left. In fact, after a strenuous high-intensity workout, we lose about 40% of our glycogen. That 40% needs to be replenished and not just that, but we also need to be thinking of muscle glycogen supercompensation. That's where we finish with more than we have started by the time our next workout comes around. If you follow the protocol set out the way I've got it in the 2200 cal eating plan re the PWO drink, you'd replenish 65 to 75% of your depleted glycogen stores according to Drs John Ivy and Robert Portman.

I hope that answered your questions.


Fadi.