What's the difference between WPI and WPC, and what are BCAA's?

[Lucifer]

Noob question, but what's the difference between WPI and WPC, and what are BCAA's?

 

[MaxBrenner]

WPI is Whey Protein Isolate and WPC is Whey Protein Concentrate. BCAA's are Branch Chain Amino Acids.

WPI is simply WPC that has been filtered again to remove more of the lactose and fat and ends up having a higher % of protein.
Please see - http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/9/2/136.pdf

BCAA's are made up of 3 of the essential amino acids - Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine.

BCAA's are naturally occurring amino acids in all complete forms of protein - meat, eggs, dairy etc.

Of Whey protein's Amino Acid profile, it contains 20-25% BCAA's.

 

[nazzysmith]

Pro's and Cons

WPI is absorbed more easily by your body then WPC due to the filtering

WPI has higher protein content due to the filtering

WPI looses amino acid content due to the filtering

WPI costs more...

IMO go with the WPC... Cheaper , broader range of BCAA's and plenty enough protein for your body...

Try Bulk Nutrients... Flavours are very good...

Alternatively just eat more chicken, fish and eggs....

 

[MaxBrenner]

WPI is absorbed more easily by your body then WPC due to the filtering



WPI looses amino acid content due to the filtering

broader range of BCAA's

Incorrect.

Insignificance difference between absorption of WPI to WPC. Not even worth mentioning.

How does WPI 'lose' amino acid content by filtering when WPI has a higher protein content?

 

[nazzysmith]

Hi Max,

Glad to be corrected...

My understanding from reading around here and online was that WPI has lower BCAA's with better absorbtion and higher protein content...

Will go back and re read...

Cheers

 

[MaxBrenner]

Amino Acid Profile - WPI
Amino Acids per 100g PROTEIN (not per 100gm powder weight)
Branch Chain Amino Acids

Isoleucine 6.5g
Leucine 10.3g
Valine 5.7g
Other Essential Amino Acids
Lysine 9.3g
Methionine 2.0g
Phenylalanine 2.8g
Threonine 7.2g
Tryptophan 1.7g

Other Amino Acids
Alanine 5.1g
Arginine 2.3g
Aspartate 10.9g
Cystine 2.9g
Glutamate 16.7g
Glycine 1.6g
Histidine 1.5g
Proline 5.7g
Serine 4.8g
Tyrosine 3.0g

Whey Protein Fraction Profile
ß-Lactoglobulin
45%
α-Lactalbumin
15%
GMP (Glycomacropeptide)
16%
BSA (Bovine Serum Albumin)
1%
Immunoglobulins
4%



Amino Acid Profile - WPC

Amino Acids per 100g PROTEIN (not per 100gm powder weight)
Branch Chain Amino Acids

Isoleucine 6.3g
Leucine 10.3g
Valine 5.8g
Other Essential Amino Acids
Lysine 8.5g
Methionine 2.4g
Phenylalanine 3.2g
Threonine 6.7g
Tryptophan 1.9g

Other Amino Acids
Alanine 4.9g
Arginine 2.5g
Aspartate 10.2g
Cystine 2.6g
Glutamate 16.9g
Glycine 1.9g
Histidine 1.8g
Proline 5.9g
Serine 4.9g
Tyrosine 3.2

Whey Protein Fraction Profile
ß-Lactoglobulin
48%
α-Lactalbumin
19%
Proteose peptone
18%
BSA (Bovine Serum Albumin)
6%
Immunoglobulins
8%


Pretty much identical. The only difference is the % of protein, carb and fats. WPC may take all of 10 minutes longer to digest due to the higher fat and carb content. That does not inhibit protein absorption

 

[nazzysmith]

WPI is easier to digest because filtering removes the lactose content... However it would appear that this time frame is negligble...

There are 2 different types of filtering used to manufacture WPI. Ion Exchange or running it through filters,

Ion Exchange WPI reduces Biofractions (Not BCAA's it appears that alot of people including myself make this mistake)

Bio Fractions include

Beta-lactoglobulin
Alpha-lactalbumin
Glycomacropeptide
Immunoglobulin G (IgG) heavy Chain
Immunoglobulin G (IgG) Light Chain
Bovine serum albumin
Lactoferrin



http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/exercise_faqs_whey
What's the difference between WPC and WPI?

Basics
WPC has a slightly lower concentration of protein, and absorbs a little slower than WPI. The benefit of this is that the rise in amino acids (building blocks of protein) in the bloodstream lasts longer than with WPI. This means that the benefits of whey intake – increased muscle building capacity – last longer with WPC than WPI, with little if any tradeoff.
Some argue that WPI is beneficial straight after a workout, while WPC is better at most other times. Despite this, WPC is still considered a fast absorbing source of protein when compared to other quality sources like casein and is therefore useful at any time around a workout or between meals1.
Casein, being a much slower absorber than the other two, may be useful at night before bed due to the long time before another meal.
In detail
A telling finding has been made by comparing the slow-digesting casein with the relatively fast-digesting WPC. As described in the Wilson and Wilson paper, athletes retain more protein and thus gain more benefit when the protein source is absorbed more slowly1. However, taking WPC in frequent, small doses (30 grams over four hours) mimics the benefits of slow-digesting casein and in fact leads to the greatest overall retention of protein – and thus potential for muscle growth.
This would suggest, without actually confirming it, that the slightly slower absorbing WPC might give a greater overall benefit than the faster absorbing WPI – unless you're willing to take WPI every 20 minutes.
Regardless, both WPC and WPI are considered very high "quality" protein sources, with WPC being high in leucine, a vital amino acid for regulating muscle building.
For even greater depth of answers, two highly-recommended sources of information are Wilson and Wilson (2006) as cited below and Campbell (2007), freely available at http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8.



WPI is easier to digest because filtering removes the lactose content...

Also Ion Exchange removes Biofractions

Bio Fractions include

Beta-lactoglobulin
Alpha-lactalbumin
Glycomacropeptide
Immunoglobulin G (IgG) heavy Chain
Immunoglobulin G (IgG) Light Chain
Bovine serum albumin
Lactoferrin


Bodybuilding.com - The Rundown On Protein: Your Questions Answered!

WPI is made similarly to WPC except WPI undergoes an additional step of purification. In general there are two different ways to make WPI. One way is to use an ion-exchange column. A second way is to pass it through a series of filters.
Ion-exchange tends to increase the percentage of protein in the end product, but it also removes many of the bioactive fractions of whey that have positive benefits, and increases the content of Beta-lactalbumin, the most allergic sub-fraction in whey.
On the other hand, using a filtering process such as cross flow microfiltration, ultra filtration, micro filtration, reverse osmosis, dynamic membrane filtration, ion exchange chromatography, electro-ultrafiltration, radial flow chromatography, or nano filtration tends to purify the sample while still preserving many of the bioactive fractions in whey. These purification processes remove virtually all of the lactose and fat and what remains is generally as much as 90-96% protein.
Pros:

• A greater percentage of the actual protein powder is pure protein with less fat, lactose, and carbohydrates than with WPC. WPI also tends to be more easily digested than WPC because it has less lactose. It also causes a rapid spike in amino acid levels like WPC.

Cons:

• If ion-exchange is used to purify the powder, some of the bio-active sub fractions of whey are lost. Additionally, WPI is significantly more costly than WPC. WPI also tends to become foamy when mixed. It also has the downfall of a relatively fast clearance time, like WPC.

 

[nazzysmith]

Thanks Max,

I do note that while Im reading around the net that there is alot of Broscience involved... ie repetitive references to the need to drink a protein shake straight after a work out...

So its hard to tell right from wrong...

Its good to have you around...

 

[nazzysmith]

Have you used an Ion Exchange WPI or a cross filtered type of WPI... As Ion Exchange supposedly has a greater reduction in biofractions....

 

[MaxBrenner]

So what did we come to NS?

No difference worth debating in terms of digestion time etc. Think about it, Hydrolyzed proteins digest and show up in the bloodstream all of 5 minutes faster than intact protein, if at all -

Human insulinotropic response to oral ingestion ... [Amino Acids. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Sixteen healthy males ingested a 500 mL solution containing either 45 g of whey protein (WPI) or whey protein hydrolysate (WPH). The estimated rate of gastric emptying was not altered by hydrolysis of the protein [18 (3) vs. 23 (3) min, n = 16; P = 0.15].

All that stuff from that 'site' is simply used from a 'sales' point of view and in the big scheme of it means zip. Oh that stuff on WPC Vs WPI etc for nitrogen retention bogus, just another 'sales' thing that sounds good but is rubbish. Will be NO significant difference.

Protein content is HIGHER in WPI because it has be filtered again to remove more of the fat and lactose. Protein fractions will be slightly different due to the extra filtration, as i mentioned in my last post as well in the link i posted in post #2. Whey is still whey.

The BodyEvolution Report: What You Need To Know About Supplements - Protein Powder

Simply, if the individual is not lactose sensitive it really doesn't matter what whey protein is used.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Have you used an Ion Exchange WPI or a cross filtered type of WPI... As Ion Exchange supposedly has a greater reduction in biofractions....

Yes that is correct. If you want to be picky, microfiltered proteins are they way to go. If it is not listed on the label, just look at the sodium to potassium ratio. Microfiltered will have low low sodium levels when compared to potassium.

Example - Typical Mineral Analysis
Sodium
188mg/100g
Potassium
1005mg/100g

Ion Exchange will have much higher if not equal sodium to potassium levels.

Typical Microfraction Composition of Different Whey Protein Isolates

Cation Exchange WPI
Anion Exchange WPI
Micro-filtered WPI
a-Lactalbumin
18%
5-10%
19%
ß-Lactoglobulin
69%
40-50%
46%
Glycomacropeptide
0%
15-25%
17%
Immunoglobulin G
5%
0.2-2.0%
4%
Bovine Serum Albumen
2%
0.5-1.0
8%
Lactoferrin
1-3%
0.2%
1-3%

I've used both types and you will notice that Ion Exchange proteins are typically more 'watery' texture when mixed.

Horley's ICE is an Ion Exchange where as Bulk Nutrients Whey is Micro Filtered.

Oh FYI, WPC is only processed by Microfiltration. WPI will be filtered in any one of the Ion Exchanges or Micro Filtration processes.

All good my friend.

 

[Bioflex]

Very good information there guys, for anyone out there taking a read, you won't find these facts in a magazine!

It is interesting to compare the levels of amino acids in WPI and WPC, per g of protein as they are very similar, infact the refinement method of the proteins will have a much greater effect on how refined they are (ie WPC or WPI) vs (Ion Exchange or Cross and Ultra Filtered).

Max, can you link any articles which show blood amino acid levels and absorption of WPC vs WPI? I agree with your thoughts that they are insignificant enough to warrent a change in products, however I did think they was a little more in it than that.

The info on Hydrolysed WPI is a funny one, at the moment there seems to be more proper research suggesting it is detrimental in terms of uptake than anything positive!

 

[MaxBrenner]

Hi Bioflex,

I've been searching and will continue to do so, but there does not seem to be any study directly comparing WPI to WPC in digestion rates.

From all the studies I looked at in doing up The BodyEvolution Report: What You Need To Know About Supplements - Protein Powder most just compared either Hydrolyzed protein types and intact types or simply whey and casein.

With that said, Hydrolyzed proteins compared to intact versions only show bloodstream amino acid response to have a 5 minute difference. Hydrolyzed showed AA in the bloodstream at 18 minutes mark and intact WPI was 23 minutes. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18679613

In the study comparing WPC to Casein, there was no difference in show times of amino acids in the bloodstream. Both showed AA's at the 20 minute mark. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/280/2/E340.full#sec-10

So IMO, there will not be a big difference in (intact) WPI or WPC digestion times and would be no more than like the 5 to 10 minute difference between Hydrolyzed WPI and Intact WPI or the Hydrolyzed Casein and Intact Casein studies.

http://www.pnas.org/content/94/26/14930/F3.large.jpg (table)
The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention
Human insulinotropic response to oral ingestion ... [Amino Acids. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Ingestion of a protein hydrolysate is accompa... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
Ingestion of a protein hydrolysate is accompanied by an accelerated in vivo digestion and absorption rate when compared with its intact protein
http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/1/106/F2.large.jpg (table)
The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/280/2/E340/F2.large.jpg (table)

For the most part, going on the amount of research done on Hydrolyzed protein Vs intact protein, it is certainly not superior and as you mentioned, most likely detrimental to overall protein retention as more is utilized in the gut during the digestion process.

 

[Bioflex]

Nice work as always Max, very thorough.

Have you found much information in terms of how long blood amino acids are sustained for with various protein sources.

It would be interesting to see if there is a differential here, I imagine this should be relative to absorption times though so again it may be much of a muchness.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Nice work as always Max, very thorough.

Have you found much information in terms of how long blood amino acids are sustained for with various protein sources.

It would be interesting to see if there is a differential here, I imagine this should be relative to absorption times though so again it may be much of a muchness.

Thanks.

In most of the studies they do talk about how long AA levels are above baseline for both Whey/s and Casein/s. For the most part Whey/s are about baseline until the 3 hour mark and Casein/s for over the 6 hour mark.

On a side note to that, those levels mentioned for AA showing up in the bloodstream are for the meals taken after a fast and no previously consume meals/nutrients. Once taken after previously consumed nutrients/meals, that will slow down the digestion and gastric emptying of any subsequent nutrients I.E whey will not release AA into the bloodstream in 20 minutes.

 

[KYK]

Hi Max, a question for you. What are your thoughts on BCAA's? Are they really needed? If so, during workouts are best time for the consumption of BCAA's?

 

[Shrek]

Max will tell you they are not required unless training fasted.

 

[MaxBrenner]

Hi Max, a question for you. What are your thoughts on BCAA's? Are they really needed? If so, during workouts are best time for the consumption of BCAA's?

As Shrek mentioned, BCAA's are not needed.

If you have trouble consuming your required protein intake, BCAA's would be of some benefit. Then again, a protein powder would be used if that was the case, not to mention it would be superior to BCAA's anyway.

If training fasted, BCAA's can be of assistance with some training adaptations and protein synthesis process (in the fasted state), yet consuming EAA's would be a better option (EAA's already contain BCAA's). Again consuming whey can cover that base as well.

Personally, I just use EAA's pre-training when I train fasted (just because I can ). I mix them with some creatine and Beta Alanine. You can add caffeine to that also for the win! FYI creatine, beta alanine and caffeine is more than enough though.

At the end of the day, consuming your required protein intake will determine your results and timing is of no issue really as our body has the ability to super compensate for protein synthesis etc. Our body is much smarter than what we give it credit for