Injuries

[GHOSTrun]

ur loose on ur 20 reppers mate

Yes, I am actually a lot looser on 20 rep squats because the weight is not really that heavy...which is why I can do 20 reps with it. With that said, it is most definitely something I should work on and doing so might see me repping out to 30...

being a Pb has nothing to do with it
loose squat is a loose squat

Well clearly it does, I have never done a PB squat 'loose'.

 

[titan au]

Yes, I am actually a lot looser on 20 rep squats because the weight is not really that heavy...which is why I can do 20 reps with it. With that said, it is most definitely something I should work on and doing so might see me repping out to 30...


Well clearly it does, I have never done a PB squat 'loose'.

you need to understand what loose is then

im just offering my opinion and advice

ur taking it like an insult and being stubborn about it

lifters that listen to feedback improve
watch dave james DLs
after the set, and during he looks for feedback

not positive reinforcement, we are not in grade 4 anymore

i'll get off your thread now

 

[GHOSTrun]

Minh, I'm not taking it as an insult, I'm just not sold on the advice and opinion you are giving me. Therefor I'm questioning you on it to try and understand better.

I have spent hours reading articles on TNATION about squatting. I have also spent hours squatting. From my own trials, I know the difference between being tight and loose, and also how the results can vary depending on your squat action too.

Do you forget I'm not wearing a lifting suit and knee wraps? I do not believe at this stage, making any changes to my squat technique would see me lift more weight. In fact I don't even feel I could make that lift again at the moment, and I'm just glad I did make it in competition where everything is 100% legit so I know it was real and not a dream lol.

How's this for an open mind, if anyone local is willing to spend some time with me, I will come down and try anything you reckon will improve my technique and see if it results in more weight being lifted.

Personally, I accept the fact I'm a novice and simply need to spend more time lifting to get stronger before I start spending hours working on the finer points of technique...

 

[GHOSTrun]

Minh - I have been following another 67.5kg lifter of similar age and height in the states on youtube for years, you probably know him, tigerak02 - http://www.youtube.com/user/tigerak02

Look at his lifts below, his equipped squat is phenominal, but his raw squat with no belt (like mine), is only 5kg more than me. This guy clearly knows how to stay tight and has good form, but his raw squat is only 5kg more than mine, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say my squat form can't be too far off.

Current IPF Classification: Class I

SQ: 227.5 kg
B: 122.5 kg
DL: 225 kg
Total: 550 kg
Wilks Coefficient: 443.135

"Raw"

SQ: 143 kg (w/o belt)
B: 202.5 lbs, 95 kg (T+G)
DL: 212.5 kg (w/ belt)
Total: 445 kg

 

[titan au]

Minh, I'm not taking it as an insult, I'm just not sold on the advice and opinion you are giving me. Therefor I'm questioning you on it to try and understand better.

I have spent hours reading articles on TNATION about squatting. I have also spent hours squatting. From my own trials, I know the difference between being tight and loose, and also how the results can vary depending on your squat action too.

Do you forget I'm not wearing a lifting suit and knee wraps? I do not believe at this stage, making any changes to my squat technique would see me lift more weight. In fact I don't even feel I could make that lift again at the moment, and I'm just glad I did make it in competition where everything is 100% legit so I know it was real and not a dream lol.

How's this for an open mind, if anyone local is willing to spend some time with me, I will come down and try anything you reckon will improve my technique and see if it results in more weight being lifted.

Personally, I accept the fact I'm a novice and simply need to spend more time lifting to get stronger before I start spending hours working on the finer points of technique...

if you are ever in melbourne
or if im teaching the powerlifting course in Brisbane or Sydney, im happy to coordinate something with you

i believe firmly that tightness and the fluid drop is paramount to novices,that is where the foundation on a squat is
not just lifting and not knowing the finer points

when i coach i coach novices to elite
lifters that are stronger and then me , weaker than me on par with me

im very analytical
you should yearn to understand a movement 100% before you can progress

flawless technique makes an average lifter good
a good lifter great

add me to facebook, we can chat there

 

[Aaron]

I like to think of injuries as tax and strength as wealth.

A wise analogy Nick. In this, I like to think of my coach as my accountant.


Ghosty - you're using a sample size of 1. Deductive reasoning is terribly weak with such a small sample size. Think about it this way, as this is what you've just said -

Person X weighs the same as person Y.
Person X's lifts are good
Person Y's lift figures are similar to Person X.
Therefore, person Y's form must be good.

 

[Dancelot]

Ghosty,

Tightness applies to raw just as much as equipped. All Melboure Uni lifters train raw 95% of the time, including the equipped lifters.

That's just one equipped lifter you picked out. A 67.5kg of similar height in our club is Nghiep. He's squatted raw 170 for 3x5 (I don't know what his equipped squat is), and Nghiep isn't actually considered a good squatter (mostly because of his phenomenal deadlifts).

My lifts have improved a fair bit since I started here and it's mostly me learning how to get tighter and therefore being able to recruit more muscles to lift. I thought I was tight enough before too, but when looking at and learning from the very best squatters, I realised that I was very loose in comparison.

I'm not as sharp as Minh, but I can tell that at the bottom of your squat in that ProRaw attempt, you were not tight enough. Your hips and your legs were a bit wobbly. This isn't because it's a 1RM max effort.

 

[Aaron]

I thought I was tight enough before too, but when looking at and learning from the very best squatters, I realised that I was very loose in comparison.

Linh,the reason for your vast improvement over the past months is because you evidently were dissatisfied with where you were. You sought the advice from the best, and utilised it.

If a person is satisfied with their lifts, then they're never going to seek out knowledge, interpret it (correctly) and apply it. There is very little point in spending hours reading T Nation (as mentioned above by Michael), if you look at your own squat and have very few criticisms to make. If there's so very little to correct, then perhaps that person would be better off writing some articles for T Nation, rather than reading them.

If one cannot understand their faults, then one will never correct them.

 

[lozzo]

if you are ever in melbourne
or if im teaching the powerlifting course in Brisbane or Sydney, im happy to coordinate something with you

i believe firmly that tightness and the fluid drop is paramount to novices,that is where the foundation on a squat is
not just lifting and not knowing the finer points

when i coach i coach novices to elite
lifters that are stronger and then me , weaker than me on par with me

im very analytical
you should yearn to understand a movement 100% before you can progress

flawless technique makes an average lifter good
a good lifter great

add me to facebook, we can chat there

gday, sorry to take this a bit off track, but im really interested about this "tightness". Here is a video of me at a recent comp - would you say i am "tight", or is this something i need to work on aswell?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMu8iCriVPg]YouTube - Lozzo 165kg Squat[/ame]

 

[titan au]

gday, sorry to take this a bit off track, but im really interested about this "tightness". Here is a video of me at a recent comp - would you say i am "tight", or is this something i need to work on aswell?

YouTube - Lozzo 165kg Squat

ok lets break this down

1. Walk Out
2. Descent
3. Reversal
4. Lockout

1. The Setup before the walkout is more important than the lift itself
take your time there, set ur hands, squeeze under the bar, pull urself under with ur lats, this will flex your rear deats, thereby creating a shelf to put the bar on. Thinmk about the 4 axis around the bar
traps, 2 delts, lats, erectors
once you are tight, get the hips under the bar and stand up with your chest proud. You want to be set up there and then, under a max weight you will loose air and waste energy on resetting up with the bar pushing down on you as opposed to no weight on you.
stand up lock ur knees and hips
walk back with straight legs! down waste your quad or erectors before the lift has started. Stand upright and wait for the start call

sorry work is over, i have to go out
finish this on the weekend

but u got info to work on

BTW...don't confuse tightness with slow descent, ill explain that later

 

[lozzo]

ok lets break this down

1. Walk Out
2. Descent
3. Reversal
4. Lockout

1. The Setup before the walkout is more important than the lift itself
take your time there, set ur hands, squeeze under the bar, pull urself under with ur lats, this will flex your rear deats, thereby creating a shelf to put the bar on. Thinmk about the 4 axis around the bar
traps, 2 delts, lats, erectors
once you are tight, get the hips under the bar and stand up with your chest proud. You want to be set up there and then, under a max weight you will loose air and waste energy on resetting up with the bar pushing down on you as opposed to no weight on you.
stand up lock ur knees and hips
walk back with straight legs! down waste your quad or erectors before the lift has started. Stand upright and wait for the start call

sorry work is over, i have to go out
finish this on the weekend

but u got info to work on

BTW...don't confuse tightness with slow descent, ill explain that later

thank you very much! ill look foward to hearing the rest.

 

[JDizzle]

WTF is this shit?

i just get under the bar, walk back and squat the damn thing while thinking about banging a 10/10

 

[Bazza20]

Ghostrun. I would suggest being a little more open to advise given to you.

Reading T-Nation hardly makes you an expert.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

In my experience weightlifting is one of the safer sports when it comes to injuries. I have hardly had an injury from lifting weights yet have a shopping list of injuries from playing footy.

The stress of lifting weights is heavy, but it's controlled. Out on the footy field it's uncontrolled. It's like drag-racing on a straight track compared to hooning in a demolition derby.

It frustrates me sometimes that I take so much care to keep my clients safe with good technique and getting them stronger and fitter steadily over time, then they go and play soccer and sprain their ankle or something like that.

The same goes for gym members generally, it's rarely something in the gym that injures them (unless they are true fuckknuckles). What often happens is that as a weak unfit clumsy person becomes stronger, fitter and more agile, they get overconfident and leap into some other physical activity without really being ready for that level of intensity.

i like to think (perhaps foolishly) that is IS possible to avoid injury. not if you want to compete in a PL comp or anything, but if you are just a recreational bodybuilder.

I agree. Let's remember that "strength training / power lifting" doesn't only mean "... for competitions." If you're looking at achieving strength like squatting your bodyweight for reps, putting 3/4 BW overhead and deadlifting 3/2 BW - a level of strength that would set you up well for everyday life and recreational sports, improve your posture and in combination with better food improve your looks and health - well you'd have to try pretty hard to get injured working up to and maintaining lifts like that.

But if you want to deadlift triple bodyweight or the like, well it's beyond my experience, but it seems like a much greater stress, leaving less room for error.

As always, depends on goals. I agree that getting seriously strong increases the risk of injury, and over the years some kind of injury or other is certain. But we can minimise the risks. It's like that nuclear thing in Japan. Nuclear reactors may be inherently risky, but we can minimise the risk and build them in nice stable areas, or maximise the risk and build them on an active fault line near the coast.

As Rippetoe says, injuries are the price we pay for the thrill of not sitting on our arse. But when paying the price, let's not overpay.

 

[51M0N]

WTF is this shit?

i just get under the bar, walk back and squat the damn thing while thinking about banging a 10/10

Which is fine to do in training, but if your lifting in a comp then you don't want to be rushing the set up.

 

[Aaron]

Which is fine to do in training, but if your lifting in a comp then you don't want to be rushing the set up.

I'm inclined to disagree. Each rep, from squatting the bar, up to working sets in training, should be approached with the same level of concentration, thought, and intensity as if it were a competition.

I've been told to set myself up the same way for each set/rep - right down to little things like which wrist strap goes on first. Trick the body into high intensity mode. In the end, a person is just another creature of habit.

 

[hightower]

WTF is this shit?

i just get under the bar, walk back and squat the damn thing while thinking about banging a 10/10

Hahahaha

 

[Iron Alliance]

YouTube - Lozzo 165kg Squat

What's with the retina burning colours Stick is wearing, that's gotta be distracting for the lifters.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Ghostrun. I would suggest being a little more open to advise given to you.

Reading T-Nation hardly makes you an expert.

I have never said or claimed to be an expert.

T-nation has a lot of people who fit the class of 'expert' writing for them, so the information on there most certainly has merit.

Some very good points have been raised in this thread and I have taken them on board.

I'm inclined to disagree. Each rep, from squatting the bar, up to working sets in training, should be approached with the same level of concentration, thought, and intensity as if it were a competition.

I've been told to set myself up the same way for each set/rep - right down to little things like which wrist strap goes on first. Trick the body into high intensity mode. In the end, a person is just another creature of habit.

So how does that apply to someone who doesn't compete?

And what if they don't have wrist straps?

How about instead of tricking the body into high intensity mode, you actually train with high intensity? Sounds more logical to me...

WTF is this shit?

i just get under the bar, walk back and squat the damn thing while thinking about banging a 10/10

..just like banging 7 gram rocks

A wise analogy Nick. In this, I like to think of my coach as my accountant.


Ghosty - you're using a sample size of 1. Deductive reasoning is terribly weak with such a small sample size. Think about it this way, as this is what you've just said -

Person X weighs the same as person Y.
Person X's lifts are good
Person Y's lift figures are similar to Person X.
Therefore, person Y's form must be good.

His lifts aren't just good, they are elite - Class 1 IPF lifter...

If a person is satisfied with their lifts, then they're never going to seek out knowledge, interpret it (correctly) and apply it. There is very little point in spending hours reading T Nation (as mentioned above by Michael), if you look at your own squat and have very few criticisms to make. If there's so very little to correct, then perhaps that person would be better off writing some articles for T Nation, rather than reading them.

If one cannot understand their faults, then one will never correct them.

If you don't read or learn from someone better, then how can you identify what is wrong with your own?

I agree. Let's remember that "strength training / power lifting" doesn't only mean "... for competitions." If you're looking at achieving strength like squatting your bodyweight for reps, putting 3/4 BW overhead and deadlifting 3/2 BW - a level of strength that would set you up well for everyday life and recreational sports, improve your posture and in combination with better food improve your looks and health - well you'd have to try pretty hard to get injured working up to and maintaining lifts like that.

So let's see - (take me for example using your figures), would be a 60kg squat, a 45kg overhead, and a 90kg deadlift...I agree Kyle, no wait, I've already said that in another thread, where you were being a complete tossbag drawing your own bullshit conclusions from stuff that was not true.

Why are there people doing less than 100kg squats, bench presses and deadlifts spending more time analysing their "form" then actually lifting?

Mike has told us form isn't important, only lifting heavy weight, and we've found out that he used poor form while lifting heavy weight and injured himself. He's taught us a valuable lesson: results count, and count much more than words or theories.

Mike's philosophy:

Mike's result: SQ137.5kg @68kg and injury.

Now we know, following Mike's advice gets you a double bodyweight squat and injuries.

So the plan you followed which gave you good but not great lifts and injured your back you're going to use with your shoulders, too?

Good luck.

 

[Aaron]

... Waste of time...