Injuries

[titan au]

So how does that apply to someone who doesn't compete?

And what if they don't have wrist straps?

How about instead of tricking the body into high intensity mode, you actually train with high intensity? Sounds more logical to me...

this applies to someone that has goals
wants to improve
competition or not, it doesn't matter
this is not the actual point, the point is goal orientation

wrist wraps? is that a funny haha joke? if not if u don't have wrist wraps it doesn't matter. The POINT again is a step by step routine that you follow no matter weight or rep range

logically? high intensity is about focus - NOT balls to the ball commando style, pt motivation, your a loser training

dave jame can't make depth on 60 kg, gawain can't on 225kg
or watever that PTC record is

they are just as tight and focused on a light weight as a comp weight

 

[GHOSTrun]

^ yeah the world coming to a stop if you don't have wrists straps bit was a joke lol

 

[Morgan]

No, the childish back and forth in the latter stages of this thread is a joke

 

[hashi]

OK shit, going through this entire thread and talking about tightness.

If you want to know what it means to be tight for squatting.
Watch this video and MEMORISE IT, it will make a very large difference to your squat if you lack tightness

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtPN-ftmxG8]YouTube - Squat Set-up Tutorial[/ame]


On bench, to get it tight, you need to be uncomfortably tight under the bar, bench press is not meant to be comfortable, Squeezing the bar is a good way to engage tightness throughout the entire body, the so you think you can bench series by Dave tate is great to aid in this.

As for deadlift, me being a deadlifter more similar to andy bolton's setup style rather than say konstantinovs, My primary focus is having my arms locked prior to the lift and my lower back and lats locked and focusing hard on intra abdominal pressure as I start.

If people paid more attention to the set up of their lifts, and repeated every lift like a max attempt regardless of weight, we would probably see less injuries and more progress.

 

[Kyle Aaron]

well you'd have to try pretty hard to get injured working up to and maintaining lifts like that.

So let's see - (take me for example using your figures), would be a 60kg squat, a 45kg overhead, and a 90kg deadlift...I agree Kyle, no wait, I've already said that in another thread, where you were being a complete tossbag drawing your own bullshit conclusions from stuff that was not true.

In the other thread, you were talking about not worrying about form, that it wasn't important, you just had to get strong. We then learned you had injured yourself. Of course, when you're injured you can lift nothing. So in the end, bad form has made you weaker than you could be. Congratulations.

I would say that consistently using bad form on working up to a 60kg squat or the like is "working hard to injure yourself." People can and do injure themselves using bad form on lighter lifts. There's a guy in my gym who dislocated his AC joint doing bicep curls with 15kg dumbbells. It's just that they're much more likely to injure themselves using bad form on heavier lifts.

Which is why I said, try to have good form from the beginning, it gets you in practice so that by the time it's heavy good form is instinctive. But of course "good" doesn't mean "perfect." Deadlifting isn't ballet, and if you treat it like ballet then you'll certainly never set any records.

Pushing yourself to the top level in anything means you make sacrifices, and could get hurt in one way or another. All you can do is minimise the risks. But if you're not pushing yourself to the top level then sacrifices aren't needed. I'm not sure why this is controversial or difficult for you to understand. You do realise skullcrushers are not a ballistic exercise?

 

[GHOSTrun]

In the other thread, you were talking about not worrying about form, that it wasn't important, you just had to get strong. We then learned you had injured yourself. Of course, when you're injured you can lift nothing. So in the end, bad form has made you weaker than you could be. Congratulations.

I would say that consistently using bad form on working up to a 60kg squat or the like is "working hard to injure yourself." People can and do injure themselves using bad form on lighter lifts. There's a guy in my gym who dislocated his AC joint doing bicep curls with 15kg dumbbells. It's just that they're much more likely to injure themselves using bad form on heavier lifts.

Which is why I said, try to have good form from the beginning, it gets you in practice so that by the time it's heavy good form is instinctive. But of course "good" doesn't mean "perfect." Deadlifting isn't ballet, and if you treat it like ballet then you'll certainly never set any records.

Pushing yourself to the top level in anything means you make sacrifices, and could get hurt in one way or another. All you can do is minimise the risks. But if you're not pushing yourself to the top level then sacrifices aren't needed. I'm not sure why this is controversial or difficult for you to understand. You do realise skullcrushers are not a ballistic exercise?

Kyle, how many times do you have to be told, I did not injure myself from lifting with bad form, I injured myself from over training, and even with this "injury" I still set a new squat and deadlift PB, as well as squatted your max for 22reps without going to failure, so I think it's about time you stopped using 'my injury' as the crux for your arguments.

Secondly, again because you have just don't seem to get it, what I was talking about in the form thread was new lifters, lifting less than 100kg, like yourself, should just be focusing on lifting, and when they actually start moving some real weight then start worrying about form aka refining technique to get the most out of your mechanics.

 

[Dancelot]

Secondly, again because you have just don't seem to get it, what I was talking about in the form thread was new lifters, lifting less than 100kg, like yourself, should just be focusing on lifting, and when they actually start moving some real weight then start worrying about form aka refining technique to get the most out of your mechanics.

austy (a new lifter) in this very thread was squatting 80kg because of bad form. He was told he's just weak and needs to train harder. A little technique refinement in 2 weeks got him to squatting 105 for the same sets & reps.

There goes your theory.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Yet the 'form nazi' kyle has. 90kg squat...

 

[Iron Alliance]

Consistency.

 

[Bazza20]

austy (a new lifter) in this very thread was squatting 80kg because of bad form. He was told he's just weak and needs to train harder. A little technique refinement in 2 weeks got him to squatting 105 for the same sets & reps.

There goes your theory.

But Ghostrun has read t-nation so he knows his shit.

 

[Bazza20]

Yet the 'form nazi' kyle has. 90kg squat...

And you haven't increased your max in 2 years.

 

[Spritcha]

this thread is cool. I have learnt so much.

 

[GHOSTrun]

And you haven't increased your max in 2 years.

I haven't trained my max in 2 years either, it still went up by 7.5kg though, must have been my shit form

 

[The Hamburgler]

This is quite a rage filled thread. And quite funny too

Ghosty, and hopefully you answer this the way I expect you to lol, are you saying that form isn't important OR are you saying that 100% perfect form is not necessary for a beginner to start lifting with, and that it is quite acceptable for them to have '90%' good form, then tweak little things to get closer to 100% as they begin to use more weight?

I ask because they're 2 completely different things and I feel people have misinterpreted what you have said. Although, if you've injured yourself, you obviously didn't do something right somewhere. Whether it's to do with form or overtraining is irrelevant to what I'm asking though
I'm also of the opionion that NO ONES form is 100% perfect, and that everyone has room for improvement somewhere
*edit*
lol at Spritchas post and sig

 

[Bazza20]

I haven' trained my max in 2 years either, it still went up by 7.5kg though, must have been my shit form

7.5kg increase in 2 years at around 20 years of age??? Not the results that most here are after.

Seriously if your excuse is you haven't been training your max for 2 years why are you dishing out all this advise to people here who are training to get stronger.

 

[GHOSTrun]

100% perfect form is not necessary for a beginner to start lifting with, and that it is quite acceptable for them to have '90%' good form, then tweak little things to get closer to 100% as they begin to use more weight?

This.

 

[GHOSTrun]

7.5kg increase in 2 years at around 20 years of age??? Not the results that most here are after.

Any increase from not directly training for an increase would be a success in itself wouldn't you say?

Seriously if your excuse is you haven't been training your max for 2 years why are you dishing out all this advise to people here who are training to get stronger.

Mate I have a life outside of the gym that requires me to be able to function to a competent degree in order to put food on the table.

I ran my own lawn mowing and gardening business for a year, this greatly effected how much time I could spend in the gym and how hard I could push myself. If I wasn't able to move during the day because of going hard at the gym the night before I wasn't able to get through a lot of jobs. If I did injure myself in the gym I wasn't able to do a lot of jobs. Again, which puts no money on the table. I'm not a professional athlete, lifting comes second.

 

[Bazza20]

Any increase from not directly training for an increase would be a success in itself wouldn't you say?


Mate I have a life outside of the gym that requires me to be able to function to a competent degree in order to put food on the table.

I ran my own lawn mowing and gardening business for a year, this greatly effected how much time I could spend in the gym and how hard I could push myself. If I wasn't able to move during the day because of going hard at the gym the night before I wasn't able to get through a lot of jobs. If I did injure myself in the gym I wasn't able to do a lot of jobs. Again, which puts no money on the table. I'm not a professional athlete, lifting comes second.

This is my exact point. Your not really in the position to be carrying on how others should be lifting.

 

[titan au]

for the main lifts you can train twice a week and get stronger

your 20 reppers don't do anything for strength
20 reppers with loose and bad technique, ie ur DL video is a recipe for disaster

learn to make ur reps mechanical

you put in a lot of effort, it is just not controlled nor focused

hard reps should be exactly the same as easy reps, just slower

I have never seen a 100% perfect set in my life

there is always something you can pick on

2 * 45 minute sessions a week is enough to see improvement

aaron has improved so much on his squat because he is open minded and a clean slate with very little bad habits

 

[dr00]

20 reps dont do ANYTHING for strength?