Injuries

[Iron Alliance]

If you think you can train through, it's generally not an injuruy you're just hurting. I class an injury as something that physically puts you out of training. If you play a sport and you want to be top class at it, injury will come with the territory.

Saying that, having constant hurts or injuries does make you doubt yourself a bit.

 

[Iron Alliance]

Please list an example of being "strong" in a "bad way", is that meant to be an oxymoron?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHoOMQB8twg&feature=related"]YouTube - Diesel Weasel Max lifts #15 - deadlift, bent-over rows and biceps curl on street (horrible form)[/ame]

I <3 Diesel Weasel. Dude's strong and has serious commitment, but damn how he hasn't got a metal rod for a spine yet is beyond me.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Touche'.....

 

[JDizzle]

YouTube - Diesel Weasel Max lifts #15 - deadlift, bent-over rows and biceps curl on street (horrible form)

I <3 Diesel Weasel. Dude's strong and has serious commitment, but damn how he hasn't got a metal rod for a spine yet is beyond me.

lol check out his 'incline' bench one

 

[pistachio]

i like to think (perhaps foolishly) that is IS possible to avoid injury. not if you want to compete in a PL comp or anything, but if you are just a recreational bodybuilder.

i don't believe in going to failure often, or testing 1RMs often, if you want to minimise the risk of injury. i am doing powerlifting style training for approximately 9 months (bout 4 months through), and I have NO doubt that if i continued training like this, I would eventually get a serious injury, regardless of form.

however, i think it is possible to avoid injuries once i go back to a bodybuilding style training.

just my 2c, but it would seem obvious that the more often you are close to 100% max effort, the more likely you will get injured. a problem for elite atheletes yes, but not for recreational lifters who don't necessarily need to train at that level to still get good results.

 

[Sherro]

Holy crap that's super re-tard strength

 

[GHOSTrun]

lol check out his 'incline' bench one

I lol'd in RL , one of the comments on youtube - "Get that pelvis up high."

 

[NPR]

Sure its possible to avoid injuries.

When I was reppin 60kg's on the bench I was injury free!!

I was also invisible when viewed from the side and needed to anchor myself down if a strong breeze occurred.

 

[pistachio]

Sure its possible to avoid injuries.

When I was reppin 60kg's on the bench I was injury free!!

I was also invisible when viewed from the side and needed to anchor myself down if a strong breeze occurred.

I'm up to 140kgs on my bench and have never had a serious chest/tri/shoulder injury. While it is not a huge weight by any stretch of the imagination, it is still respectable.

Before starting my powerlifting style training, I had only once (ever) attempted a 1 rep max on bench. Usual rep style was 6 reps minimum on my last set.

I agree entirely with what you said in your last post with the tax/wealth analogy, but I think it refers more to elite lifters.

I don't see any reason why recreational lifters can't achieve admirable lifts or physiques without getting injured. They won't achieve the BEST lifts or physiques, but admirable none-the-less. Depends on what you want to achieve. Naturally, if you want to be the best, it means pushing yourself to the extreme, means more chance of injury.

Now that I've said all that, I'll probably get a serious injury lol, but if I do, I would attribute it to the powerlifting style training. Heavy weights, low reps every session takes a toll on the joints, IMO at least...

And don't forget I was invisible from the side before I started training too

 

[titan au]

2 types of injuries

stupid injuries from not being tight - usually spinal or joint issues

muscle tears, strains

the first is avoidable 99% of the time

the later is not but is not as serious

Tight is dictated by nearly everything
Tightness is another aspect of technique

90% of people cannot tell the difference
for example, and i mean no offense
Mike's 137.5 or whatever it was at ProRaw
It is good form in terms of chest is up, knees are out etc, but there is not tightness there
lack of tightness can cause injuries
Mike doing that 137.5 tight would have flown up and not been a grinder.

I was pissed off at my easy sets on 155 because I lacked tightness and didn't take advantage of the stretch shortening cycle. Everyone that watched that set said it was pretty good. I would say it is shit house

Let me give you an example of what tightness can get you

Aaron Nutt, training with me for 2, maybe 2.5 weeks
first time he came over he did 3 reps on 80kg sq
loose
chest dropped because of that
he has been told he has a weak core in the past, I got him to tighten up
last week when I was training with Matt Middleton, Aaron did a set of 5 on 105, fairly easy (i'd say he can do 115 for 5s at the moment)
last night he did an easy double on 120 (he could have done 130) but we will wait for the comp in a week and a bit to see what his true max's are and program from there for a 12-16 week cycle and peak him, hopefully he can do 170-180 raw by then

my point Tightness is KEY
it is more important than technique variation

 

[NPR]

Minh has nailed it.

Tightness is the trick, on every single lift.

I doubt gumby would squat much.

 

[GHOSTrun]

Mike's 137.5 or whatever it was at ProRaw
It is good form in terms of chest is up, knees are out etc, but there is not tightness there
lack of tightness can cause injuries
Mike doing that 137.5 tight would have flown up and not been a grinder.

So it was a grinder (with good form), because I wasn't "tight", not because it's an all time personal best lift and the most weight I've ever squatted?

Sorry Minh you'll need to explain to me more because I'm not buying it. Before the descent I clearly took a deep breath into my belly and prepped myself for the lift and if I hadn't of done that there is no way I would have made it through the sticking point.

 

[Bazza20]

If you think you can train through, it's generally not an injuruy you're just hurting. I class an injury as something that physically puts you out of training. If you play a sport and you want to be top class at it, injury will come with the territory.

Saying that, having constant hurts or injuries does make you doubt yourself a bit.

It's a fine line though, you have to try and make a judgement call. Training through pain can cause an injury to become chronic. I know, training through pain caused me to get a chronic knee injury which ment no footy or squatting for 2 years.

People can act all tuff about Injuries but being out for years at a time your not going to achieve much.

 

[titan au]

So it was a grinder (with good form), because I wasn't "tight", not because it's an all time personal best lift and the most weight I've ever squatted?

Sorry Minh you'll need to explain to me more because I'm not buying it. Before the descent I clearly took a deep breath into my belly and prepped myself for the lift and if I hadn't of done that there is no way I would have made it through the sticking point.

i'll explain

think of a cross bow or a slingshot

form and technique is not just about looking textbook
it is important to look good, but not as important as being tight

you load up a cross bow and you release it to fire
when you are loading it up there is an opposing force
51% load, 49% opposing
loading up the stretch shortening cycle

simple example, a punch, you pull back tight and release

the 51% load turns into 0% and the opposing force becomes 100% as fast as possible "the quick reversal"

a lift should be a fluid, tight acceleration peaking in speed at the point of reversal, that's where u maximise explosive potential

you don't want to generate 100% or close to that at the bottom

you want your 100% and the energy redirected

hope you understand

 

[GHOSTrun]

i'll explain

think of a cross bow or a slingshot

form and technique is not just about looking textbook
it is important to look good, but not as important as being tight

you load up a cross bow and you release it to fire
when you are loading it up there is an opposing force
51% load, 49% opposing
loading up the stretch shortening cycle

simple example, a punch, you pull back tight and release

the 51% load turns into 0% and the opposing force becomes 100% as fast as possible "the quick reversal"

a lift should be a fluid, tight acceleration peaking in speed at the point of reversal, that's where u maximise explosive potential

you don't want to generate 100% or close to that at the bottom

you want your 100% and the energy redirected

hope you understand

No not really. Have you even watched the video? I have no issue with utilising the SCC as you can clearly see I have no trouble getting out the hole. The problem is halfway up which is a long way past the rebound point at the bottom......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cau1jKx25Cs]YouTube - ProRawOne, Ghosty squats 137.5kg@68kg[/ame]

 

[Iron Alliance]

It's a fine line though, you have to try and make a judgement call. Training through pain can cause an injury to become chronic. I know, training through pain caused me to get a chronic knee injury which ment no footy or squatting for 2 years.

People can act all tuff about Injuries but being out for years at a time your not going to achieve much.

Agreed, knowing your limits is paramount. Forcing yourself through to the point where you then have to take longer and longer between certain movements, is just stupid. Get what's hurting you sorted out.

Your pain tolerance is also a factor, having a stupidly high pain tolerance myself, it's not always the best.

 

[titan au]

So it was a grinder (with good form), because I wasn't "tight", not because it's an all time personal best lift and the most weight I've ever squatted?

being a Pb has nothing to do with it
loose squat is a loose squat
ur loose on ur 20 reppers mate

block with ur hips
control ur hips
the hips control every lift
its not just about bending ur knees

watch gregg, gawain, dave jame, even aaron
dancelot is getting it
probably heaps more, but can't think of them atm

 

[titan au]

tightness gives you a chance to hit a lift
loosen is a recipe for injury

 

[gongi_meter]

you must have a massive squat titan au

 

[titan au]

i've seen the video
its loose, trust me
don't get me wrong there is a bit of tightness, but not enough
im not trying to offend you or get into a back and fourth, that's not my intent, im just telling you, concentrate and understand what tightness and speed is and you will get stronger and lift more