• Keep up to date with Ausbb via Twitter and Facebook. Please add us!
  • Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

    The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.

    Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.

Deadlift question

Rambodian

Rambodian

No I'm not cambodian
My question is: If you do a deadlift from a set of boxes that allow the bar to be a bit higher,......say around knee level or there abouts,......does that make your back work harder because there is less leg drive?
For some reason I remember reading this somewhere but have never tried deads from boxes, I've never tried rack pulls either (don't own a rack lol).

I was thinking about making a set of adjustable wooden deadlift boxes. Just a few diff boxes that sorta sit on each other and interlock that allow 5cm or 10cm jumps etc so I can put a bit of a different spin on the deadlift every now and again.

What is the main reason for box pulls? or rack pulls? over a normal deadlift.

Thanks in advance as always guys.
Graeme
 
On a deadlift, the first half the pull is mostly hamstring, top half the pull is mainly back.

The top half of the pull you can work by doing rack pulls, various heights of rack and boxes are just variations and offer various degrees of this.

Bottom half of the pull generally mimicked by doing deficet pulls... ie barbell on the floor but the lifter is standing on a plate/box. Again various height boxes to mix it up a little but basically the same thing. Main reason to work on either top half or bottom half is generally for powerlifters who have identified a weakness - ie can lift a barbell up but can't lock it out.

Why do you ask, plateauing on your deadlift?
 
Off a box/rackpulls are good if the top half of your lift is your sticky point.
Deficit deadlifts are good if your sticky point is initially pulling the weight from the ground.
Rack pulls work hamstrings, glutes and back muscles:)
I believe BBers use rack pulls for directly working the back?
 
For 70% of people, I would just pull from the floor.

Doing box/rack pulls can be good for overload, but don't do that great of a job for fixing lockout issues.
If you have a shitty lockout, work on your speed off the ground. This will give you more momentum to smash you sticking point.

If the bar is moving so fast that it looks like your going to clean it (insert vid of Zach here) and you still have lock out issues, then rack pulls, chains, bands, glute specific work can be a focus.
 
I agree with sticky. Rack pulls I have found are not that great at fixing lockout problems for many people.

It's not as simple as rack pulls for lockout, deficits for off the floor.

I am starting to realise that with the deadlift you almost pick your sticking point depending on how you start. People who start with hips high and bent over blast the weight off the floor and struggle at lockout. The guys who get the hips down struggle more off the floor and are in a better position up higher to finish the lockout.

Lockout is my problem and I lift with a hip higher start. My plan is do a lot of deficit deads to get better leg drive in the start of the deadlift to allow me to be in a better position up higher to lockout the dead out.
 
I find pulling off blocks take the stress off the lower back and put it on the upper back (more weight used)
I don't really like knees as a position though, I try to keep any deficit or box minimal.
I don't believe (with me) that it helped my lockout, but ANYTHING that overloads that position will help.

I am going to make a thread dedicated to this in a few weeks as I was having great results with it: Bands
Bands are fucking awesome. I cannot describe how awesome they are lol
I wanted chains but realised that carrying around 100+kg of chain to the gym was not practical and the gym wouldn't let me store it there. So I got a pair of micro and monster mini bands as my lockout was really suffering. I quadded up the micros on either side and put 80% on the bar and pulled 10x3 and the first set kicked my ass LOL. I have no idea how I managed to get 10 sets done, I must have been circa-max on every rep

The training effect after 3 weeks? My deadlift improved from 182.5 to 190kg, sub maximal weights lockout as if I am doing a clean, the bar jumps up sometimes lol. It's hard to describe what deadlifting feels like now, it's as if the bar suddenly gets really light about mid shin. With max weights, I am now limited by the weight I can break off the floor (although I've never missed a rep). If you look at Sticky's recent deadlifting video where he does the 3 singles my force curve is kinda looking like that - slow off the floor initially then it shoots up the shin and lockout is a real grinder. Considering that I was struggling to lock out a fast 182.5kg, I am REALLY happy with locking out a slow 190kg.

I'm thinking of doing some DE cycles with 50% straight weight + bands to make the lockout max effort for the next 3 weeks while hammering at my strength off the floor

On final tip: Don't be afraid to experiment. There are hundreds of experts on the internet that would have told me that bands are pointless until you deadlift a certain amount and so on, but unless you try you'll never know. I wouldn't go crazy with the band tension at first but triples @ 80% with some added band tension will never hurt
 
Rambodian said:
My question is: If you do a deadlift from a set of boxes that allow the bar to be a bit higher,......say around knee level or there abouts,......does that make your back work harder because there is less leg drive?
For some reason I remember reading this somewhere but have never tried deads from boxes, I've never tried rack pulls either (don't own a rack lol).

I was thinking about making a set of adjustable wooden deadlift boxes. Just a few diff boxes that sorta sit on each other and interlock that allow 5cm or 10cm jumps etc so I can put a bit of a different spin on the deadlift every now and again.

What is the main reason for box pulls? or rack pulls? over a normal deadlift.

Thanks in advance as always guys.
Graeme
Click to expand...
Different parts of your back get different degrees of work at different points in the deadlift. Off the floor you'll probably be using your lats more to hold the bar against the shins. Towards the top of the lift you'll probably be using your traps more (although not actively so) for the whole "I like my arms attached to my body" thing that all the kids are into these days. I've always found that it takes more erector spinae work to keep the spine neutral while bent over than it does when upright, so I'd assume that the erectors get less work in the top h alf of the movement.

In any case, assuming that you keep your back neutral, the actual joints moving to get the weight up will still be your hips, knees, and (to a degree) your ankles (your shoulders also move, but that's not such an active thing), so you should be using your legs as the driving force through the full range of motion.
 
Thanks for the advice fellas, I think I'm just gonna stick to normal deadlifts from the floor until I have any real issues after reading this. haven't got any real problems as of yet, my deadlift is fairly even the whole way through the lift so I just need to work on overall strength to get it to a decent weight.

Very informative replies, thank you.
Graeme
 
Do you have the ability to grind through a rep? Or do you hit your sticking point and the bar stops moving and you're done?
 
wingman said:
They all are. I hate the term assistance. Confers that there's less need or requirement for them or less effort spent on them.
Click to expand...

It's just assistance to the 3 main powerlifts. If your not a powerlifter it's not really assistance. It's just an exercise.

Also SLDLs are awesome.
 
wingman said:
They all are. I hate the term assistance. Confers that there's less need or requirement for them or less effort spent on them.
Click to expand...
its called assistance because they 'assist' you in making the main movement easier, these exercises should still be given 100% effort (not maxing them out, but still pushing the limits for reps) otherwise they are pointless
 
just make sure when doing rack pulls that you are in the correct position, best way to do this is to keep the bar bellow the knee, that way u can still see if u are in the position that you would be if u were doing a full deadlift, if the bar is above the knees u can easily cheat it by leaning back (not being in the right position). basically it should be the exact same as what a normal dead is.
 
callan said:
just make sure when doing rack pulls that you are in the correct position, best way to do this is to keep the bar bellow the knee, that way u can still see if u are in the position that you would be if u were doing a full deadlift, if the bar is above the knees u can easily cheat it by leaning back (not being in the right position). basically it should be the exact same as what a normal dead is.
Click to expand...

Even just below knee level the carry over seems to be minimal because no matter how hard you try and mimick the position you would have had from the floor you can't because you havent had to start the lift.

I added 70kg to my rack pulls from below knee and my lockout didn't improve at all.

I think the westside way of doing rack pulls would have some merit. Pulling from a small height, 2, 4 or 6 inches. The change is small enough that you should still get carryover of the floor.
 
Bazza20 said:
Even just below knee level the carry over seems to be minimal because no matter how hard you try and mimick the position you would have had from the floor you can't because you havent had to start the lift.

I added 70kg to my rack pulls from below knee and my lockout didn't improve at all.

I think the westside way of doing rack pulls would have some merit. Pulling from a small height, 2, 4 or 6 inches. The change is small enough that you should still get carryover of the floor.
Click to expand...
if u added 70kg to your rack pull, but nothing happened to your normal deadlift lockout something is wrong, have u actually looked at the position and the way u actually pull a rack pull compared to your normal deadlift?
 
callan said:
if u added 70kg to your rack pull, but nothing happened to your normal deadlift lockout something is wrong, have u actually looked at the position and the way u actually pull a rack pull compared to your normal deadlift?
Click to expand...

Yes I did. Nothing is wrong just didn't carry over. Plenty of others have noticed this.

Rack pulls below knee are way overrated for most people. Next try at rack pulls will be on 3-4 inch mats. Being less of a change from the floor should work better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top