Does Olympic weightlifting build strength?

[0ni]

You did quote zatsiorsky but I don't recall seeing a page ref - can you pls provide it? I might re-read that section in its entire context.

nevertheless, I still think you are comparing apples and oranges. What are you discussing here - the training methods of elite lifters who are near their genetic potential, or up and commers such as yourself and themost effective/efficient way to reach the elite level?

It's page 156.
Also if you read what I am saying correctly (maybe I'm not saying this clear enough) I have mentioned on numerous occasions that the Olympic lifters build up a strength base while they are young and slowly dedicate more training time to the competition lifts as they mature as a lifter. They get strong as shit first whilst they perfect technique, then change the focus afterwards. 99% of recreational lifters will be in the "need more strength" phase when you compare them to what other nations are doing.

I've actually been in contact with Coach Wu in Singapore and should be going over for a month to train under him as my yearly holiday. He mentioned that I'll be mainly doing squats, push presses, heavy pulling and a shitload of bar work as I am a "weak englishman"!!

Here a video of a teenage kid squatting with 170kg for a triple. It was posted by someone who trained at the facility for a while and when he asked the guy about his training he mentioned that he was approaching "adequate strength" and needed to work on his technique... this is a very young age lol

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUs4poWy_Bs]SWF Training 170x3 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[D-Man]

Rippetoe's article, which I thought was the basis of the thread, is discussing elite lifters. To be an elite lifterr, I assume one would be already near their absolute strength potential - surely within 80 to 90 per cent pls correct me if I am wrong.

no offence, but I don't think you are in that category yet, so I don't know why you keep using your personaal situation in your examples.

thanks for the page ref - i'll have a read later tonight.

(btw, I like your new avatar)

 

[0ni]

Rippetoe's article, which I thought was the basis of the thread, is discussing elite lifters. To be an elite lifterr, I assume one would be already near their absolute strength potential - surely within 80 to 90 per cent pls correct me if I am wrong.

no offence, but I don't think you are in that category yet, so I don't know why you keep using your personaal situation in your examples.

thanks for the page ref - i'll have a read later tonight.

(btw, I like your new avatar)

Yeah, I wasn't saying that I was at that level lol. I was giving myself as an example of someone far below that level (an olympic weightlifting novice). Rips article was more about taking the best American lifters to the Elite level. I don't think that the USA has any lifters that I'd regard "elite". I agree that elite lifters would be near their limit strength potential but you just don't get that with the top American (British and Australian also) lifters. He says that the USA doesn't have the raw talent the other nations have so they should combat that by getting strong as shit and I think it's pretty clear that whatever they are doing now isn't working (2 females and 0 males entering the olympics)

 

[bradsky]

I've actually been in contact with Coach Wu in Singapore and should be going over for a month to train under him as my yearly holiday. He mentioned that I'll be mainly doing squats, push presses, heavy pulling and a shitload of bar work as I am a "weak englishman"!!

Ha! that's wicked news. prolly make you eat some food also

 

[KungFooGoo]

Ha! that's wicked news. prolly make you eat some food also

.....dammit, had a face palm jpg ready....

 

[0ni]

Ha! that's wicked news. prolly make you eat some food also

Yeah should be good. 1-1 personal training is SGD90/session. That's about AUD70. I'll probably have 4 sessions a week and lift by myself for 2 sessions.

All inclusive it's going to cost about AUD300 a week. It's an open offer btw, anyone can train there! The gym's at "82 Jalan Benaan Kapal, Singapore 399658" if anyone is interested in training there themselves..

 

[Darkoz]

Good on ya Oni
The coach will be an old man with no hair by the time he's finished with you, (or you're finished with him)

 

[0ni]

lol

 

[oldcorollas]

Mendes: 350 kg deadlift for reps, 175 kg snatch.
Henry: 425 kg deadlift, 180 kg snatch.
Perepetchenov: 290kg deadlift, 320kg squat, 175 kg snatch

so you're saying that if Perepetchenov increased his deadlift by 60 to 135kg... he'd increase his snatch by 0 to 5kg..
i can see the carryover LOL

Well when we look at it
250 c and J is 94% of all time world record
415 dead is 90% of the raw dead record.

looking at both lifts relatively the deadlift is actually the poorer ( or pathetic as you say) lift. The C and J is the better relative lift.

is that 460 raw dead record with PEDS, or drug free? (wow the dude weighs 170kg! must be good genetics..)
what is the drug free raw deadlift world record? (or is there no such thing?)

 

[Bazza20]

is that 460 raw dead record with PEDS, or drug free? (wow the dude weighs 170kg! must be good genetics..)
what is the drug free raw deadlift world record? (or is there no such thing?)

Lol. There is drug tested doesn't mean it's drug free. Don't for one second believe the o lifters a drug free. Lol.

 

[0ni]

so you're saying that if Perepetchenov increased his deadlift by 60 to 135kg... he'd increase his snatch by 0 to 5kg..
i can see the carryover LOL


is that 460 raw dead record with PEDS, or drug free? (wow the dude weighs 170kg! must be good genetics..)
what is the drug free raw deadlift world record? (or is there no such thing?)

I didn't say that at all....

 

[oldcorollas]

Lol. There is drug tested doesn't mean it's drug free. Don't for one second believe the o lifters a drug free. Lol.

well, no more than all the other american athletes these days

up until '75 it was a free-for-all, but how many of those records still stand today?
now being tested means they can't use them as much as powerlifters can.

shall we call them "relatively drug free" ?
or maybe just "easily detectable drug free".... or "cheap detectable drug free"...

 

[PowerBuilder]

Dya see how that dude squats with good form and at no point does he 'good morning' the weight up. Interesting he also did 3 reps....didn't Fadi say something about doing sets of doubles or triples ?


Mate you can have Dmitry Klokov coaching you personally...it doesn't mean you're lifts will automatically sky rocket. You wouldn't know my coach...yet he's coached international level lifters. What does that tell you?

 

[0ni]

Powerbuilder what the hell are you rambling on about now?

 

[Jonno_aus]

I don't see why I need to do my homework
My point is that Olympic lifters often could often do with more strength work in their programs. Starr has done this from day 1 and the posts you quote explicitly mention him doing lots of squats and presses to build the olympic lifts

No. It states that Starr and everybody else were doing the Olympic lifts in training. Front squats over back.

And the reason for the Presses? They were an Olympic lift back then.


So not only didn't you do you're homework, but you never read it correctly either.

 

[Goosey]

0ni is correct

As I said, it is a hard read (for me), i needed to read it a few times, there is a lot of detail.
What he's saying, is that the new Lifters forgot how to train.
I know and speak to a few whom were lifting and competing in the early 60's They, including coach Starr did it all (like he says) They did the 3 olympic lifts and many "assistance exercises" .......back squats, front squats, standing supports, dead lifts, high pulls, snatch pulls, Pressing off the rack (many rack exercises) and all of it was for pr's. They were all around strong.
They were also into Body building and did some of that.
I guess the new lifters have become too specialized and he's saying that is why we are no longer perceived as a lifting power.
I think he's also saying that the coaches are a bit too full of them selves and "scientific."

 

[wingman]

Powerbuilder what the hell are you rambling on about now?

irony of the day

 

[0ni]

No. It states that Starr and everybody else were doing the Olympic lifts in training. Front squats over back.

And the reason for the Presses? They were an Olympic lift back then.


So not only didn't you do you're homework, but you never read it correctly either.

Congratulations on missing the point of Rippetoe's article entirely

 

[Sticky]

well, no more than all the other american athletes these days

up until '75 it was a free-for-all, but how many of those records still stand today?
now being tested means they can't use them as much as powerlifters can.

shall we call them "relatively drug free" ?
or maybe just "easily detectable drug free".... or "cheap detectable drug free"...

LOL, You know the IPF is tested right?

If you think 90% of lifters at the Olympics are life time drug free your kidding yourself.

Oly lifters, powerlifters, sprinters....... Every sport that is "tested" has athletes that use PED's.

 

[PowerBuilder]

At the international &/or elite level of sport...more athletes would be using PED than not. The problem. Is people recognize that and figure they should do it too...at least then it'll be a level playing field.


On a different note...te higher you go in sports...the more politics plays a role. The higher you go, the less athletes you see.