workout belts

PTC · Dec 7, 2009

Hey Kyle, here is a section from my latest newsletter, show this to your "friend" lol

Using a belt is no different. A belt is a mental band aid as far as I’m concerned. The best example I have is of the two experienced lifters I’ve had train at PTC. James and Louie were big strong guys when they came to PTC, both having deadlifted 200kg, with belts. I don’t allow belts with my clients, and they took some convincing to not use them. I could sense they weren’t comfortable deadlifting without one. They eventually deadlifted 250kg without a belt, to go with their 180kg squats and 140kg bench press. All their PB’s were achieved at PTC without a belt. Louie subsequently went back to training at his own gym and ran into problems with his back, James continues to lift at PTC and has powercleaned 126kg, squat 150kg x 20 and deadlift 200kg x 11, all without a belt.

If in your mind you think you need a belt, despite of all the evidence around you of guys lifting much more weight than you without one, you are weak of mind. Pointing out lifters that lift more than raw athletes with a belt is pointless if both groups are lifting more than you. Here’s a challenge, catch the guys without a belt then work at catching the guys with one.

I’m pretty confident that band aid wearers won’t change their thought process. This example clearly shows that some lifters are mentally tougher than others. They don’t even consider wearing a belt, where the weak lifter needs his belt, or at least he thinks he does.

Recently someone I know had a disagreement with a hero on another website, who was boasting of his lifts with a belt. When my friend gave him an example of a younger, inexperienced, lighter lifter lifting more weight without one, he was attacked by the hero, questioning this guys lifts. Rather than giving praise to the younger guy, his ego was dented. Mentally weak. The fact is the hero’s lifts are great, but don’t tell others they need a belt to achieve them

Goosey · Dec 7, 2009

Three pages on weight belts?
Come on.

Kyle Aaron · Dec 7, 2009

PTC said:
Hey Kyle, here is a section from my latest newsletter, show this to your "friend" lol

You can show him yourself, I must have hit a sensitive spot, he flipped out,

Gary Gibson said:
**** Kyle Aaron and the whore who spawned him.

I honestly welcome a dissenting opinion, but Kyle is a confrontational dick whom I could easily beat up.

and then started a thread about it.

Short version: "Kyle is a poopyhead, nobody lifts more than me without a belt, la la la I can't hear you no they don't, I am a legend, everyone else is stupid."

Long version below.

Gary Gibson said:
You should probably add gear as you get stronger.

I was going to post on this anyway, but the response of some piss ant weakling to my the thread on belts really sent me over the edge.

Everything is "gear": proper shoes, neoprene knee sleeves, belt, suits, shirts...it's all "gear"...but that's okay.

When you get under a heavy barbell, you are performing an act that would never have occurred in "nature." You are engaging in congress with an artifact of industrial civilization. If you're bothering to put a barbell on your shoulders, don't think you're somehow purer because you eschew man-made polymers on your knees, hips or shoulders.

Here is the ugly truth...

A belt will help you get stronger faster when you hit 1.5-2x bodyweight (or 1-1.5xbodyweight for women).

Some knee protection in the form of sleeves or light wraps start to make sense around that time too.

A light squat suit or light bench shirt will actually help you as well as you get stronger.

A lot of internet "all raw bra!!!" jockeys will balk at that, but they probably aren't that strong and you probably shouldn't listen to them.

Barbell training is the best, most efficacious way to get stronger, but it ain't "natural".

Even proper benching, squatting and pulling subjects your body to forces it really wasn't designed to encounter, particularly when you start getting past piss ant weight.

There is nothing wrong with utilizing other industrial artifacts like sleeves, wraps, suits and shirts to protect your joints and make lifting more productive AND to get you stronger faster.

Please ignore morons who act like there's something mystical about using a barbell to the exclusion of supportive gear. Light gear allows you to use heavier weight which will cause faster adaptation.

"But my joints will get strong if I just expose them to the stress without support."

Absolutely true when you are weak. As you get stronger than average, some protection and support makes more and more sense.

Yes, people get strong without ever touching belts, wraps, sleeves, suits and shirts. But those people are probably much more suited to lifting than you are.

There is no shame in not being among the genetic elite with their superhuman joints. A little protective gear will allow you to train harder and longer and get stronger faster than just training totally raw because of some deluded sense of lifting purity.

This thread will probably fill up with the protest of barbell-only folk. I hope you don't listen to them. Odds are you don't need a light squat suit or bench shit yet, but you could probably use proper squat shoes with a slight heel or a good powerlifting belt. If you stick with it, a light bench shirt or squat suit would help too.

(The extreme multi-ply and canvas stuff is for specialists and they change the performance of the lift. That stuff is for very strong people and concern what is essentially a different sport and I'm not talking about them in this post.)

If you're struggling with a 315 SQ at under 200 lbs, then you could use a belt, but not a squat suit. Things change as you get stronger and it disgusts me to see people squatting under 315 and mocking belt usage and people squatting under 600 who mock the use of even light squat suits.

I used to be a weak piss ant who mocked powerlifters in general and gear in particular. Now I understand how incredibly strong powerlifting strength specialists really are and why they use gear. If you have your doubts, you're probably not nearly as strong as they are. Again, I used to be like you, but now I know better.

If you can't squat at least 600, then you don't need any gear beyond a belt and you're not really entitled to an opinion about it. If you squat under 400, then you probably need to invest in a belt and a decent pair of squat shoes; get stronger before you masturbate over relatively weak Oly types squatting 400-500 lbs in their undies, THEN form an opinion.

For a tough guy, he has very sensitive feelings. He should save his aggro for the iron.

Oli · Dec 7, 2009

Kyle, why does everyone in the 100% Raw and USAPL raw division comps wear a belt if it does nothing?

A basic understanding of the valsalva maneuver would be enough to realise why belts are not a strength 'band aid'.

If you're only interested in bulking up and general fitness then fine, dont wear a belt, but if you're a serious powerlifter you're letting yourself down without one.

puff · Dec 7, 2009

thanks kyle that was great, lmao at that thread. the last comments you wrote were possibly the most well worded post of yours i have read.

PTC · Dec 7, 2009

That guy is a moron Kyle, pointless arguing with a moron. Your wasting your time.

Oliver, not everyone(or anyone) is interested in powerlifting. For every "powerlifter" wearing a belt you give me, I'll give you an Olympic lifter not wearing a belt, so whats the point.

Wear a belt if you like, and leave others alone. I dont give a rats ass if lifters wear one outside PTC, you simply cant wear one at my gym, because its not needed.

Like that dick above, I can give you as many examples of guys lifting more than him and you without a belt. So what, do what you like, just dont pretend that they are needed to lift big weights, I have enough examples of that not being the case.

Kyle Aaron · Dec 8, 2009

Oliver04 said:
If you're only interested in bulking up and general fitness then fine, dont wear a belt, but if you're a serious powerlifter you're letting yourself down without one.

In principle that sounds good.

BUT...

1 bloke wears a belt, and deadlifts 200kg.

Markos and 44 others don't wear a belt, and deadlift 200 or more kg.

Results. Judge by them.

CaT_SPeW · Dec 8, 2009

Kyle Aaron said:
In principle that sounds good.

BUT...

1 bloke wears a belt, and deadlifts 200kg.

Markos and 44 others don't wear a belt, and deadlift 200 or more kg.

Results. Judge by them.

isn't the main argument about wearing a belt while squatting though? most people on the other forum seem to think that deadlifting with a belt gives little to no advantage.

PTC · Dec 8, 2009

Please dont make me pull out belt less squat numbers David lol

I think at the last comp 5 lifters OPENED with double bodyweight squats and 8 lifters succeeded with double bodyweight squats, the heaviest being Chris who made 200kg @ 92kg

Even for reps, which fatigue your back so much more, Max has squatted double bodyweight x 10, Nick has squatted 155kg x 20.

Again, if your using a belt and squatting less......why?

Chris just deadlifted 205kg x 8 for 2 sets as well I see in his journal. I wonder if he'll give 300kg a crack in January.I know he'll smash his 266kg at least.

Zarkov · Dec 8, 2009

hyjak said:
im a bit indifferent to belts. no one wears them at PTC but everyone wears them at Apollo, both gyms have guys of all shapes and sizes pulling big numbers. ive never worn one so i dont feel like i should comment on them, i certainly dont view them in the same way as a suit or shirt. theres a few communal belts at Apollo so i wouldnt mind giving it a go to see how it feels.

I`m a bit the same but i admit I do trash belts and the wearers a bit (too much maybe?).My gym has 8 belts hanging on the wall, 4 small, 2 medium, and 2 large, that are always getting used.Guys walk in and go straight to them,buckle up and then go and do dumbell curlsSome guys don`t even do them up tight.One fcukstick used to wear two,one around his hips and the other around his weight.In my experience 99% of the guys who wear them are wankers.*

*Absolutely not directed at the OP.If you have good reason to wear one then do it.

PowerBuilder · Dec 8, 2009

i honestly tried read that thread...but fell asleep

"Strength in the gym doesn't translate to strength outside the gym......" what the fcuking hell does THAT mean ?

So if i squat 170kg....when i get out of the gym & go to squat down to pick up something super heavy, i'm going to be fcukt ? what a load of bollocks

haz · Dec 8, 2009

Kyle Aaron said:
In principle that sounds good.

BUT...

1 bloke wears a belt, and deadlifts 200kg.

Markos and 44 others don't wear a belt, and deadlift 200 or more kg.

Results. Judge by them.

makes no sense. there would be thousands of people who wear a belt and deadlift over 200kg.

im sure you'd find that alot of the people that deadlift over 300 wear belts. ill judge by those results that we all MUST wear BELTS.

Goosey · Dec 8, 2009

PowerBuilder said:
i honestly tried read that thread...but fell asleep

"Strength in the gym doesn't translate to strength outside the gym......" what the fcuking hell does THAT mean ?

So if i squat 170kg....when i get out of the gym & go to squat down to pick up something super heavy, i'm going to be fcukt ? what a load of bollocks

It's true up to a point.
Something to ponder.

A lot of what happens today is mainly because today's athletes are different.

It wasn't that long ago when male athletes were in tip top shape (comparatively speaking) from doing hard manual work and chores. Weight lifting was brutal, basic and done no more than 2 or 3 days a week. Conditioning was sprints and jogging and playing your sport.

Now, the children and grandchildren of those athletes expect more.

Those of us that have been around awhile have seen things change for the better and the worse. IMO, the greatest example of the old saw, "the more things change, the more they stay the same" is CrossFit. If you see a CrossFit gym it's main selling point is that it's "Retro", "Minimalist" blah, blah, blah. Forty to fortyfive years ago, it would have been a cutting edge facility if it was in a high school or college.

NPR · Dec 8, 2009

There is a huge difference between gym strength and fuctional strength.

Static lifts shows gym strength, strongman shows functional strength.

Goosey · Dec 8, 2009

Strength is strength.
To me- the difference is skill level.

dr00 · Dec 8, 2009

abstract: its so much easier to pin my wife down and tickle her now than it was before i did weights. so its scientifically proven that weights give you functional strength.

method: tickled wife. lifted weights. tickled wife again.

references: internet

it hasnt been peer reviewed yet but im pretty sure ill get it into a journal.

Goosey · Dec 8, 2009

Your tickling skills will imrove, try progression.

Goosey · Dec 8, 2009

Don't tickle to failure just back-off a tad.

PowerBuilder · Dec 8, 2009

dr00 said:
abstract: its so much easier to pin my wife down and tickle her now than it was before i did weights. so its scientifically proven that weights give you functional strength.
.

over the years...i've found it's easier tickleing this fella's wife...she's also liking it more & more

Shorty · Dec 8, 2009

PTC said:
CAPO dont have drug testing. Other federations do, only they dont carry it out lol

Shorty has competed in a drug tested federation for years, has competed at National and regional level since 2007, never been tested lol

The sport of powerlifting is dead in Australia. In the 80's early 90's it was insane, one fed, now theres a few with opposing views on squat depth and belly benching.

Such a pity.

I'm happy with the way my comps go. Because I own everything, I tell lifters with shit attitudes to f u c k off, I dont have to bow to anyone.

My comps are fun and always will be.

Ask Shorty about my comps compared to his National Championships, the atmosphere etc.

Thats all the PTC comps are about. I wish more of you guys come to AD10, even if only to watch, you'll see why they fly from interstate to compete.

Correction two years later, i finally got drug tested at my last comp LOL. Its funny though with the drug testing, because it appears really random.

There was this female lifter first comp 60kg bodyweight tiny light numbers like <100kg squat, <40kg bench press 110kg deadlift. Got drug tested.

My training partner who is 82.5kg benches 90kg raw paused first comp, second comp got a bench shirt did 110kg paused with bench shirt, then got drug tested.

Anyways i totally agree with PTC with his comp being very different and fun because everyone is so like minded and encouraging. Its a different atmosphere to the IPF comps which are very strict with little crowd support unless your well-known amongst the powerlifting community.

At PTC no matter who you are, as long as your busting your guts trying to get a PB everyone will behind you cheering.

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