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You need hard work for progression. Some think it comes easy.
“Oh it’s too hard, I’m not recovering” etc etc.

Bah....dig deep, exert yourself, train like you want it.

Take a fckn supplement, even if it is a placebo. A pre workout, creatine, beta alanine, Joe Weiders Inosine..Ino-fckn-sine, whatever.

Ok, but if you progress as a result of more recovery then like I said goal achieved, who are you to say he hasn’t worked hard enough, the discussion is moot.


Fucked up Kunce
5x5 SL progress & recovery issues.

It’s not moot.
5x5 is not taxing. 5 reps hardly raises the heart rate unlike 12,15 or the brutal 20 reps esp squats.
3 times per week for about an hour is fuck all. DOMS was non existent with 5 reps unlike higher reps.
When I did 5x5 I added an extra day to do more accessories
Ike calves, hammies abs. No probs recovering.


Manky Pommie Kunce
The only way for the OP to know if more recovery is the key is for him to try it and see what results he gets.
I agree that recovery is key, what is your opinion on active recovery through light training to flush the muscles with blood ?? Worthwhile or better to sit on the couch ?

whether it is a walk or run or a lighter workout recovery all comes from the same source.

look I don’t give a fat rats what he does, the goal is progress, if he trains everyday for 2 hours and his progress is consistent then he’s doing the right thing (for him)
My take on weight training is you do it so you can live your life to the fullest I think this applies to most of us


New member
Thanks to whoever said I was still 50. Been back this week with the program. I really believe it was the heat wave + a few really long days at work that knocked me on my arse. Had no probs this week and been adding the program accessories straight after the main work out.

I am new to lifting but played competitive full contact sport since 5yo, grade one.

One thing I am certain about now from experience is that you degrade physically as follows;

Reflexes degrade first and rapidly
Cardio capacity degrades next
Recovery is next again to diminish
Strength is last to go.

Tbh I am stronger now than when I was a prime young bull even with my joints at their worst in my life.

5X5 is far from easy as someone suggested, 25 squats of the same weight is taxing no matter who you are when you get to week 8. the fact every session you have increased the weight is not exactly easy. I am skeptical that anyone at any age at any level would not find that physically and mentally taxing assuming you started at the correct starting weights.
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Active member
If 5x5 is good then 6x5 must better?

Nope. There is no reason why 5x5 is any better than 3 sets of 5. If you hit 3 sets with maximum intensity, and you cant get 5 reps on the fourth set, then you have done enough. Go home and recover. 3-5 days recovery for squats and deads, 3 days recovery for the other shit. Old bodies need time to recover from intense lifting.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
Bill Starr was the so called inventor of 5x5 he used it a lot when coaching footballers, he felt that these were easy numbers as he would often have larger numbers of trainees, so, nothing magical but I did use it a lot and I always finished with a 20 rep back-off set.

this of course was pre 80’s more mid 70’s stuff, it was good, but you got to workout, it’s not a restout you know.
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New member
For a novice its great, simple program, short workouts, most important whole body exercises...program is proven for decades.

Of course intermediate or advanced athletes move on to something else, it even says that you have to move on to other schemes right there in the program.

Some of the alternatives I considered were just fancy ways for a personal trainer to take money from newbs for as long as possible doing weird complicated bullshit.


Active member
Didnt Bill Starr use 5x5 because the people he was working with were too stupid to remember anything else?

5x5 is ok, unless you don't rest enough between sets and try to push yourself like a 20yr old.

I have always worked off the idea that if I make the first set and not the last, its rest time that killed me, not intensity or volume because I didn't suddenly get weaker in 6 minutes.

Stay with 5x5, rest 2 days between workouts and take longer rests. You're an old man for fucks sake* unless you're a lunatic like Von but if you were you wouldn't be asking.

*early 40's here and work for a living, I need rest.


Well-known member
5x5 is not taxing. 5 reps hardly raises the heart rate unlike 12,15 or the brutal 20 reps esp squats.

This is true......

...if you use the wrong weight.

No matter what workout program you use, if the last rep on your last set is not pushing you to your limit, then the weight isn't heavy enough. And doing more reps is not the answer. If you can do 5x10 with a weight that's supposed to be 5x5, then the weight is way too light.

This is where Mike Tuchscherer and his "rate of perceived effort" (RPE) comes in, and what's made him such a successful athlete and coach. He takes into account that a lifter never feels 100% every single day, so the actual weight lifted varies depending on the perception of effort.

So, with 5x5, if the last set is waiting for you and you have a feeling of trepidation, then the weight probably is right. But if you are thinking that you need to get this out of the way so you can go do some bosu ball curls, then you prolly aint lifting heavy enough.


Holy shit. 5 reps will fuck you and your CNS up good and proper if done intensely enough.