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Rippetoe on Squats (article)

S

Stiffy

Guest
T-Nation Mark Rippetoe article

Squat Mechanics: A Deep Analysis

  • When you squat, use your hips. This will require a more horizontal back angle than you think.
  • You may have heard that you must stay upright when you squat, with as vertical a back angle as possible. You've heard wrong. Think "rigid," not "vertical."
  • The angle of hip flexion must equal the back angle if the spinal relationships are to remain neutral.
  • The cue to "Point your nipples at the floor" works very well for the squat.
  • Looking up when squatting does nothing but fight against the correct back angle. Look down.
  • If your hamstrings get sore when you squat, you're doing something wrong.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/squat-mechanics-a-deep-analysis



So Oly Squating may not be best. ie dog rooting tennis ball PL Squats are better?

What is the best squat technique?
 
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Hey @Sticky ; I see you around. Can you please give us perhaps a link or explanation of your Squat technique best suited to both PLs and average gym rats.
 
Depends what feels best for you. I like Rippetoe's articles and book, but his squat style doesn't really work for me, especially looking down.
 
bozodos said:
Depends what feels best for you. I like Rippetoe's articles and book, but his squat style doesn't really work for me, especially looking down.
Click to expand...

I haven't gone in depth into the article as it is quite technical, but Rip does allude to keeping upright as being bad for your body. If I have time I'll come back with quotes lol.
 
bozodos said:
Depends what feels best for you. I like Rippetoe's articles and book, but his squat style doesn't really work for me, especially looking down.
Click to expand...

"If you're going to flex your hips to use them in the squat, you must also bend over enough to keep your back in its normal anatomical relationship with the pelvis if you're going to use the back as a safe and efficient transmitter of moment force between your hips and the bar. In other words, your isometric contraction around the spine that locks the back rigid and aligns it with the pelvis protects the spine, not a more vertical back angle."

Theres a bit more there but I couldn't be fooked reading it all indepth. Your turn lol.
 
Rip's a Harry high pants in that he has long legs short torso.

i believe that if you want to find the right groove for yourself you've got to master squatting with no weight.
and that's no easy to do, to squat deep that is.
 
What Rip is saying is that keeping the back upright like an Oly Squater is not as effective at keeping the back rigid and spine protected as a bent over "dog rooting a tennis ball Powerlifting Squat".

"If you're going to flex your hips to use them in the squat, you must also bend over enough to keep your back in its normal anatomical relationship with the pelvis if you're going to use the back as a safe and efficient transmitter of moment force between your hips and the bar. In other words, your isometric contraction around the spine that locks the back rigid and aligns it with the pelvis protects the spine, not a more vertical back angle."


Seems to go against what we have been taught.
 
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Because if you look up at the ceiling and point your nipples into the sky in a back squat you'll more than likely hyper extend your back, shift the weight too far back on the heels, and is a sure fire way of giving yourself a terrific tension headache. Focusing on something about 6 feet away works better for me than simply staring at the floor like a delinquent. But that point of reference has to stay still, so the tight lycra ass of a gym hunny doing pelvic thrusts in front of you won't cut it, much disappoint.
 
Yeah he's not a massive fan of high bar squatting, though you could take that to mean that keeping the muscles around the back tight is more important than torso angle.

For example, the coach at my gym wants me to lean more on my squats, as since my back is fairly upright, the knees have to travel out more for my hip crease to be below the top of the knee (if that makes sense). However I prefer to squat in the way that feels most natural to me (which is literally not thinking about the movement). I'd have to take a video for a more accurate assessment. I found keeping the eyes neutral and looking off at the wall preferable to looking up or down as well.

I agree Silverback - I noticed a correlation between being able to easily bodyweight squat with my feet flat and being able to squat more weight.

There is a 60 page thesis on squatting in Starting Strength if you're really keen.

I chuckled at this part of the article too : "You may even have read that elite powerlifters squat with a vertical back – some of them do, especially the ones who lift with a sumo stance in a monolift, in the triple-ply suit-and-wraps recreational federations that don't judge depth."
 
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bozodos said:
Yeah he's not a massive fan of high bar squatting, though you could take that to mean that keeping the muscles around the back tight is more important than torso angle.
Click to expand...

Pls either read the article or read my replies to you. As I stated before replying to you, he says you can't keep the back rigid without being bent over when the hips are flexed.

"If you're going to flex your hips to use them in the squat, you must also bend over enough to keep your back in its normal anatomical relationship with the pelvis if you're going to use the back as a safe and efficient transmitter of moment force between your hips and the bar. In other words, your isometric contraction around the spine that locks the back rigid and aligns it with the pelvis protects the spine, not a more vertical back angle."
 
Well I took my interpretation of that to say that it's preferable to have more angle for the isometric contraction so yes I did read your reply and the article (which was not one of his better written ones IMO).
 
At the end of the day, surely it's a personal thing. Especially when you look at the comment about hamstrings. If you have a longer torso, then from a purely geometrical perspective, you're putting very different demands on the back.

As a beginner, I read this and don't think "OK, I need to point my chest downward"
Instead, I think... "I need to get someone to watch my form and give me specific advice"
 
I think rippetoe is a goose.

I have no idea why starting strength is so widely accepted as an appropriate beginners program.

A squat style/stance is completely different for each person, depending on levers and mobility among other things.

"Point your nipples to the floor" is one of the most retarded things I've heard though.
 
to be fair, I think that a lot of his advice and writing is more aimed at coaches than individual lifters
 
What I'd like to know is whether there is any substance to his statement that the spine is in a stronger/safer anatomical position when bent over as opposed to upright.

I've been deliberately trying to Squat more like an Oly lifter, plus I always learnt to look up above horizontal when Squatting - as did most people I'm guessing.
 

I haven't read a word of what this bloke has written, but I think like all experts, they write some good stuff and some stupid.

i read some of Dan Johns stuff also and think, what the fuck is he talking about.
 
El Stiffy said:
What I'd like to know is whether there is any substance to his statement that the spine is in a stronger/safer anatomical position when bent over as opposed to upright.
Click to expand...

The spine is neither strong or weak - it's the musculature around the spine that decides the safety of it.

Squatting in a slightly bent over position, will engage the posterior chain much more than an upright oly squat.

Working the posterior chain while squatting, in my opinion can only be a good thing.
 

salient points to remember when squatting.

1- maintain the natural curvature of the spine, including the head, don't look up or down, just keep it still and in the right position.
2- at all times keep the bar over the "mid-foot" or thereabouts.

3- don't over analyze

If you are short torso'd long legged, your torso will need to lean forward to maintain the right line of forced applied by the bar.

if you use weight lifting shoes, you will be able to load a tad more on the bar, because your torso will be more upright.

flat soled shoes for the lifting hobbyist is best.
 
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