Sheiko

[Spritcha]

I'm glad you agree because I was basically quoting you verbatim!

Oh ok- well you do it better than me.
ONe thing I often hear is that 32 is too easy. I think that tends to happen when what runs before it is too easy and people take things too conservatively. Also- skills in week 1, as you note, are realy important to the peaking process.

 

[0ni]

interesting

 

[Bazza20]

Thanks for the help guys. Looking forward to what I put up on skills test.

 

[strong enough?]

Thanks for the help guys. Looking forward to what I put up on skills test.

No worries, best of luck.

 

[Gtrain]

When Boris was asked at the CAPO nationals what programme he recommended (#19, #27 etc.) for an intermediate lifter with a specific goal/focus (cant remember the detail) his answer was "I don't know, I didn't write those programmes". When people asked who did he said " I don't know, people just post numbered programmes on the internet and call them Sheiko".

 

[Bazza20]

When Boris was asked at the CAPO nationals what programme he recommended (#19, #27 etc.) for an intermediate lifter with a specific goal/focus (cant remember the detail) his answer was "I don't know, I didn't write those programmes". When people asked who did he said " I don't know, people just post numbered programmes on the internet and call them Sheiko".

So what is actual skeiko training then.

 

[spartacus]

that is hilarious.

 

[0ni]

he trained them with Westside

 

[Bench Polkov]

When Boris was asked at the CAPO nationals what programme he recommended (#19, #27 etc.) for an intermediate lifter with a specific goal/focus (cant remember the detail) his answer was "I don't know, I didn't write those programmes". When people asked who did he said " I don't know, people just post numbered programmes on the internet and call them Sheiko".

He did not know these programs by those numbers, they were attributed by Americans such as Dave Bates and Eric Talmant.

29, 30, 31, 32 are known as arresters 1-4 by him I think, and 37 was released in his original books. There are a couple of other programs called Gaps 1-4 but they're harder to find.

39 and 40 aren't his I don't think.

 

[Spritcha]

yeah thats right. 29, 30, 31 and 32 were posted up on his original club website. 37 was in his book. Most of the other priograms I have seen are specifically written for an athlete- like Kazakov, Fedorenko etc.
Clearly Sheiko offers a brillliant starting point for a lifter- but the idea is to personalise and individualise. Thats the thing the Russians I have spoken to have highlighted- don't just follow a plan.

 

[Terry Gibbs]

I missed that comment as I had to leave early (11.30pm) before the Q & A. but prior to that he had said that the majority of the programs attributed to the Russian master coaches, were propagated by people he doubted had ever met them

he then quoted a program that called for 4 sets of 5 in the squat at 90%, - I forget what he said but was something like farcical..

very complicated and requires lots of work, to get the best out of, but then so does Westside

 

[Bench Polkov]

I missed that comment as I had to leave early (11.30pm) before the Q & A. but prior to that he had said that the majority of the programs attributed to the Russian master coaches, were propagated by people he doubted had ever met them

He didn't actually mention it at the seminar, this is just from SP's prior knowledge.

 

[Goosey]

I missed that comment as I had to leave early (11.30pm) before the Q & A. but prior to that he had said that the majority of the programs attributed to the Russian master coaches, were propagated by people he doubted had ever met them

he then quoted a program that called for 4 sets of 5 in the squat at 90%, - I forget what he said but was something like farcical..

very complicated and requires lots of work, to get the best out of, but then so does Westside

Welcome Terry Gibbs

 

[Terry Gibbs]

He didn't actually mention it at the seminar, this is just from SP's prior knowledge.

sorry the comment was in no way a dig at Steve, who I highly respect - Sheiko listed about four or five top Russian coaches, names I am not overly familar with

and he is aware that some people of limited ability are trying to market themselves as experts based on claimed associations that do not exist.

think the comment aimed at 90% by 4 sets of 5, is about Smolov, but never cared too much to read much on Smolov..

if you think back, this has been going on for well over 20+ years, Yessis and Todd claimed so much special knowledge about the Soviets it was mostly crap, - remember how the Ruissians never did squats but did split squats and steps ups, .. someone saw I guy with a bad back working around an injury and made the huge jump in logic --

from what little I know the 29,32,30,37 etc are programs using Sheiko philosophy and are in line with what he believes, were they once written for one of his lifters probably, .. it is just that, like as in Westside, being trained by Sheiko or Louie himself is way more productive than running a template.. is the template wrong, hell no, but can these guys squeeze more out of you, yeah probably

and from what I learned my deadlift is seeing life after being pretty "dead" no matter what I tried for years...

 

[Goosey]

As an aside.

It made me remember a story I once read, not sure how accurate.

Bob Hoffman saw on a desk in Russia, a bunch of Weider magazines.

These magazines were the Russians secret

 

[Spritcha]

sorry the comment was in no way a dig at Steve, who I highly respect - Sheiko listed about four or five top Russian coaches, names I am not overly familar with

and he is aware that some people of limited ability are trying to market themselves as experts based on claimed associations that do not exist.

think the comment aimed at 90% by 4 sets of 5, is about Smolov, but never cared too much to read much on Smolov..

if you think back, this has been going on for well over 20+ years, Yessis and Todd claimed so much special knowledge about the Soviets it was mostly crap, - remember how the Ruissians never did squats but did split squats and steps ups, .. someone saw I guy with a bad back working around an injury and made the huge jump in logic --

from what little I know the 29,32,30,37 etc are programs using Sheiko philosophy and are in line with what he believes, were they once written for one of his lifters probably, .. it is just that, like as in Westside, being trained by Sheiko or Louie himself is way more productive than running a template.. is the template wrong, hell no, but can these guys squeeze more out of you, yeah probably

and from what I learned my deadlift is seeing life after being pretty "dead" no matter what I tried for years...

29, 30, 31, 32 and 37 were written by Sheiko, but thats not what he would know them as. This numbers were used to name the templates Sheiko wrote. I believe the numbers were added by Eric Talmant- but nevertheless the templates themselves are identical to the ones Sheiko wrote under the names arrester 1, arrester 2 etc (or in Russian
Примерный месячный план - 1 тренировок в подготовительном периоде- which is something like "The approximate monthly plan - one training in the preparatory period etc etc). So when the person asked him about 29, 30 etc he didn't know the templates by those names. I am basing this on the original templates in Russian that I have seen that came from Sheiko's own club.
But the point you make is a good one. Those particular templates were made as plans for beginners. As he himself says in his book- the point is to individualise and personalise a plan. The plans for the higher level lifters Sheiko wrote were all written specifically for the athletes. They are useful in assisting understand how a plan is individualised.
I enjoyed the part of the seminar that criticised other templates. As he pointed out- training in the 90% and above zone has some serious drawnbacks for strength development. The interesting thing for me was about the way he balances volume and loading in a waved and periodised cycle.

 

[Terry Gibbs]

Steve what I got out of it was the 72% +/- 2% .. just don't want to do all that math, kind of takes the fun out of it .. but seriously, what he said at times was very simple, you need to train to stimulate growth and you need to build in recovery, between these two, there is so much room for individualisation

before the seminar started I asked him about how much these programs look like the old russian programs when they still pressed.

Snatch
seated press
Clean Pulls
squat

and so on ... his reply was simply "of course ... nothing in heavy athletcis has changed"

I thought I saw you sitting there

Regards

 

[Spritcha]

Yes- I found what he was saying about the average intensity very interesting as well. I know guys like Dave Bates looked into the number crunching and working out how manipulations change the average intensity and volume- but I also cant be bothered with that. If you use the sheiko templates as a starting point then the number crunching is already done for you. The question then just remains whether you tweak things and if you do how. There are a bunch of other considerations Sheiko has already talked about that help us- like the training effect of increased reps or sets or loads or frequency- and how these effects match up with specific objectives- like how far out from comp you are. A lot of the questions here are the same as the ones Mike Tuchsherer poses- but I think the answers are sometimes really different. You are right though- training this way doesnt have to be very complicated.

Yeah I was there- Dimitry told me "you look much more tiny"- so I wasn't sure if anyone would recognise me.

 

[perceive]

Interesting that you bought up Mike Tuchscherer. I am definitely a beginner lifter but I am looking forward to what he has to say in December.

 

[Spritcha]

You will get heaps from it. Mike is awesome- a lot of knowledge and a great coach. I worked with for a year- great experience.