• Keep up to date with Ausbb via Twitter and Facebook. Please add us!
  • Join the Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

    The Ausbb - Australian BodyBuilding forum is dedicated to no nonsense muscle and strength building. If you need advice that works, you have come to the right place. This forum focuses on building strength and muscle using the basics. You will also find that the Ausbb- Australian Bodybuilding Forum stresses encouragement and respect. Trolls and name calling are not allowed here. No matter what your personal goals are, you will be given effective advice that produces results.

    Please consider registering. It takes 30 seconds, and will allow you to get the most out of the forum.

LateStarter

New member
Hi All


Going to be starting a cutting cycle after a 6 month newbie recomp. Recomp progress is stalling, so I want to cut, then stay lean and lean bulk next year.


Goal is to cut to from 18% to 10% bodyfat, losing 7.8kg fat and maintaining strength.

I took a DEXA scan today that verified everything, and also provided my TDEE and recommended cutting calories.


History:
-Training consistently since March, gotten substantial newbie PRs
-Recomped from 30% down to 18% bodyfat, same bodyweight



Diet: This has been calculated by the DEXA scan - need critique on this:
Calories = 1972 calories (TDEE is 2682) = 700 calorie deficit, plus I have 1 cheat/refeed day per week (social reasons).
Macros = 50/30/20.
246 Protein
129 Carbs
55 Fats


6 Meals are:
Two protein shakes (pre and post workout)
Breakfast Eggs
Protein/Vege lunch
Afternoon snack (protein shake + fruit)
Protein/Vege dinner


Weekend diet: Mealtimes get compressed, and usually 50% is a cheat day.




Questions:
Is a 700 calorie deficit going to be OK since I get a refeed/cheat day in on weekend? Or am I going to lose too much muscle on this?
If I do Cardio - do I need to reduce my deficit considering my TDEE was calculated taking into account 3-4 workouts per week?
 
Last edited:

LateStarter

New member
ps my training is 4 day split:
Chest/Back
Legs/Abs
Shoulders/Triceps
Back/Biceps

Plus two days of rest wherever needed between, and some cardio at the end of some sessions.
 

White_Lie

Look at Moi, I'm a Kunce
What's the time frame on the plan? I'd personally cut less than 700 to start with, more like 300-500 and gradually increase as the weight loss stalls. But it depends how quickly you want the weight to come off.

Repacked and steveP have had good success with their cuts lately so I'm sure they can offer better advice than me...I'm on a 6 month cut hahaha
 

LateStarter

New member
What's the time frame on the plan? I'd personally cut less than 700 to start with, more like 300-500 and gradually increase as the weight loss stalls. But it depends how quickly you want the weight to come off.

Repacked and steveP have had good success with their cuts lately so I'm sure they can offer better advice than me...I'm on a 6 month cut hahaha

Not exactly sure for timeframe, I want it fairly fast but also don't want to lose strength..

When I punch those numbers into MyFitnessPal diet tracker, it tells me I'll lose 1kg a week. But I guess only trial and error will tell for sure..

So 1kg per week, 10 weeks I would lose 10 kg. Hopefully 8kg would be fat and only 2kg muscle (or less).

Will be interested to see others progress
 

Timeah

Captain Kunce
700 is okay. But dont go on forever like some kunce like to. Thats where muscle loss comes in. But yeah, starting with a smaller deficit is probably better, then when progress stalls, cut a little more calories. Starting higher i guess wouldnt give you any where to go when progress inevitably stalls.
I am led to beleive that 8-12 weeks is about a max time frame to cut for. Especially since you are not too fat.

Tim.
 

steveP

New member
700 does seem like a bit of an extreme drop. You'll definitely notice the reduction in energy and your gym progress may stall. Try it out for 2 weeks. If you still feel good on it, it means you'll be cutting for a shorter amount of time.

I'd say you're probably going to feel like shit after a week and will need to bump the calories up. The way I usually do it is to cut 10% of calories for 4 weeks/a month. So if you're on 2700 calories, a drop of 270 is about right. 4 weeks is about enough time for your body to recalibrate to your newer lower maintenance calories. Then repeat the process. So 10% of approx 2430 calories will be 240, to get your down to approx 2200.

The staggered approach means you're not throwing a massive curve ball at your body and making it perform when it doesn't want to. Doing it slower gives your body time to adjust. And you're probably more likely to binge after a massive calorie drop as your hormones freak out.
 
Last edited:

Timeah

Captain Kunce
Yep. Thats the way i reckon i'd go.

Start on 2500 for 2 or 3.weeks. then drop 250 for another 3 ir 4 weeks. Then another 225 for a final run of 3 or 4 weeks. Protein level is good there. Add the calories to carbs and use em around training. Should feel pretty much totally normal imo. Atleast for a good while.

Where this lands you is where id stop at and sit at for 2 or 3 months before considering cutting again for perhaps another 7 or 8 weeks to finish off (if not lean enough for ya).
Then maintain that again for another 3 months or so before doing anything like getting heavier etc.

Pretty much what Mike Isratel alludes to doing.

As an aside, losing just 6kg of fat, would get you 12.5% BF. Pretty good. And easy to maintain.

Tim.
 

Timeah

Captain Kunce
ALSO!!!.!.!..!.!.!
Id be trying to maximise the amount of times you can hit each muscle group per week. 2-3 x is probably best. Remembering that muscle protein synthesis tends to peak out after at most after 2 days or so. Training the muscles 2 x a week will be better than one. Gotta give em a reason to stick around!

Tim.
 

Repacked

Punxsutawney resident
700 cal deficit is a large deficit to start with, but if you're not dieting for an extended amount of time may suit your purpose.

All other things constant, should result in about a kilo of bf loss every ten day or so. Obviously additional cardio will increase that.

You can diet for extended periods. No-one gets shredded in 8-10 weeks.... unless you started at 10%, and ime the body doesn't adapt that quickly, and not to the point where you can't implement dietary changes which will stimulate further fat loss relatively easily. I've been in a deficit for most of the time for many months......although it feels like years.... :D.. and am still getting leaner.

Keep your protein at that level, if you drop it to cut cals don't do it for an extended period.

Bear in mind, the lower the point you start the less you can reduce in future. My advice is to lose weight on the maximum amount of calories possible.

If you stagnate, and I don't mean for a few days because weight loss or gain is NOT linear, but if the scales don't move for a week - ten days, I would increase calories through carbs for 2-3 days and see if that gets you moving again. Not eating enough is as counter-productive to weight loss as eating too much.
 
Last edited:

Timeah

Captain Kunce
700 cal deficit is a large deficit to start with, but if you're not dieting for an extended amount of time may suit your purpose.

All other things constant, should result in about a kilo of bf loss every ten day or so. Obviously additional cardio will increase that.

You can diet for extended periods. No-one gets shredded in 8-10 weeks.... unless you started at 10%, and ime the body doesn't adapt that quickly, and not to the point where you can't implement dietary changes which will stimulate further fat loss relatively easily. I've been in a deficit for most of the time for many months......although it feels like years.... :D.. and am still getting leaner.

Keep your protein at that level, if you drop it to cut cals don't do it for an extended period.

Bear in mind, the lower the point you start the less you can reduce in future. My advice is to lose weight on the maximum amount of calories possible.

If you stagnate, and I don't mean for a few days because weight loss or gain is NOT linear, but if the scales don't move for a week - ten days, I would increase calories through carbs for 2-3 days and see if that gets you moving again. Not eating enough is as counter-productive to weight loss as eating too much.
Quoting for truth.

Highest calories possible when cutting. Id add cardio if its super easy to do so. Or add a day of training. Whatever is easiest will be easiest to maintain consistently.

Tim.
 

LateStarter

New member
Thanks guys this is great feedback.

I must admit the first day was a struggle, so yeah 700 is too much!

I'm hoping not to be on this too long, I hate cutting to be honest. I love to eat, and I love to get PRs and have high energy.. so 10-12% I'll be happy and go back to maintenance.

On the training, that part is fine as I'm hitting everything twice a week.
Back gets hit on Day1 and Day4
Pressing is on Day1 (chest), and Day3 (overhead). Both days have lateral and rear delt work.
Legs is hit on Day2, but also in deadlifts on Day4
Arms don't matter, they get hit all over the place.
Day5 I'll hit calves again, and do some cardio.
Will also squeeze a rest day in where needed.

So here's what I'm going to change based on your feedback:
-Cutting 10% from my cals for now, so going to be 2340 daily calories
-50/25/25 = -293 protein, 146 carbs, 65 fats
-3 weeks from now I will re-asses and cut 10% off again, unless the scale is dropping too dramatically
-I'm adding more volume to speed things up, and some cardio when I have time

Question - what percentages do you guys prefer for cutting?
I'm going with 50 protein, 25 carb, 25 fat.
I have heard it's bad to get fat much below 80g as it can screw up testosterone and other processes in the body.

I do see alot of people doing 40/30/30, but those same people don't change their ratios when they switch between bulk and cut.. I'm thinking higher protein better on a cut, and then increase the carbs when I go back to gaining?
 

Timeah

Captain Kunce
Thanks guys this is great feedback.

I must admit the first day was a struggle, so yeah 700 is too much!

I'm hoping not to be on this too long, I hate cutting to be honest. I love to eat, and I love to get PRs and have high energy.. so 10-12% I'll be happy and go back to maintenance.

On the training, that part is fine as I'm hitting everything twice a week.
Back gets hit on Day1 and Day4
Pressing is on Day1 (chest), and Day3 (overhead). Both days have lateral and rear delt work.
Legs is hit on Day2, but also in deadlifts on Day4
Arms don't matter, they get hit all over the place.
Day5 I'll hit calves again, and do some cardio.
Will also squeeze a rest day in where needed.

So here's what I'm going to change based on your feedback:
-Cutting 10% from my cals for now, so going to be 2340 daily calories
-50/25/25 = -293 protein, 146 carbs, 65 fats
-3 weeks from now I will re-asses and cut 10% off again, unless the scale is dropping too dramatically
-I'm adding more volume to speed things up, and some cardio when I have time

Question - what percentages do you guys prefer for cutting?
I'm going with 50 protein, 25 carb, 25 fat.
I have heard it's bad to get fat much below 80g as it can screw up testosterone and other processes in the body.

I do see alot of people doing 40/30/30, but those same people don't change their ratios when they switch between bulk and cut.. I'm thinking higher protein better on a cut, and then increase the carbs when I go back to gaining?
I wouldnt go by %'s.
1-1.5gm of protein per lb.

Tim.
 

White_Lie

Look at Moi, I'm a Kunce
Yeah I'd work out the protein first and see what's left. I prefer higher fat than carbs but everyone is different. You may lose sufficient weight and feel a lot better with higher carbs than fat, depends on you
 

Repacked

Punxsutawney resident
I wouldnt go by %'s.
1-1.5gm of protein per lb.

Tim.

Yeah I'd work out the protein first and see what's left. I prefer higher fat than carbs but everyone is different. You may lose sufficient weight and feel a lot better with higher carbs than fat, depends on you

^ Pretty much this.

Percentages really mean nothing as they are relative. There is non magic %, some people can diet on super high carbs some not. I know a dude who's about to go for his physique pro card and he's dieting on 300+g of carbs per day. Sunofabitch!

Set your protein2.5-3g/kg, set your fats where you think they need to be (around .75g/kg is reasonable starting point), and the rest carbs. You could drop protein a bit if your carbs are at a reasonable level but it's all a matter of calories. If you don't need to immediately why would you? I am a fan of keeping protein at the higher end but according to the research there's not much point in exceeding 3g/kg or falling below 2g/kg. If you drop protein to the lower end try to keep carbs higher as carbs will spare protein, but if you just want to drop a few kegs you don't need to overthink it and get caught up in the technical minutiae :cool: Just focus on cals in vs cals out and get enough protein.
 

Repacked

Punxsutawney resident
Thanks

Do you calculate protein based on lead mass? Or total bodyweight?

Does it really matter if you set protein at 3g/kg of lean mass or 2.5g/kg of total mass? Probably not.

If you want to get technical, the term 'lean mass' does not necessarily mean purely muscle.

Don't overthink it. Use total bodyweight, if you don't lose anything then adjust.
 

Repacked

Punxsutawney resident
You're not going to catabolise into dust in 8 or 9 weeks mate. Don't worry.

MOaeLUj.gif
 
Last edited:

LateStarter

New member
Haha yeah I know, but I'm a typical Virgo type I like to dig into details.

What I'll do is judge from my training if I need to increase carbs. Looks like I have some room to drop protein and increased carbs so I'll consider that if I'm hitting the wall in the gym

Cheers
 

Repacked

Punxsutawney resident
Haha yeah I know, but I'm a typical Virgo type I like to dig into details.

What I'll do is judge from my training if I need to increase carbs. Looks like I have some room to drop protein and increased carbs so I'll consider that if I'm hitting the wall in the gym

Cheers

Haha I can empathise with that; I'm OCD with details and data and analysis. It's a curse.
 
Top