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Why You Shouldn't Grind the Weight (srs)
Goosey
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Dr Ken Liestner would perform squats to fatigue, I think all form of exercise done to fatigue have a degree of isometric hold usually around the "sticking point" (where the force of gravity is at its highest).
One of the most neglected components are the negative portion of an exercise.
we are stronger in the negative, primarily due to internal muscular friction, that being none.
Fadi
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I haven't heard of that before, but I like it. Thanks.
Fadi
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My muscles are at their strongest when they're not moving. In other words, muscle force is at its highest when velocity is at zero.
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0ni
Registered Rustler
Considering that force is mass * acceleration that's not really true
Fadi
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Perhaps you're thinking of power. The graph below shows the relationship between the velocity (speed) of movement and the amount of force generated.
At zero velocity you can see the muscles can produce maximal force. This is because the load isn’t moving (think of pushing as hard as you can against a wall or a weight you couldn’t shift) so the force you can generate will be maximal because your muscles will have all the time they need to contract.
As the velocity of the movement increases the force you can produce starts to drop. This is because less of the actin and myosin filaments have a chance to be bind and contract.
At very fast velocities the force you can produce is quite low as very few of the actin and myosin cross bridges have time to bind, and very few are bound at any moment. The faster you go the less force you have time to produce within the muscle.
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Goosey
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My belief has always been that a muscle at full contraction is at its strongest fadi, to me there is a huge difference between mechanical work and muscular work, muscles produce force, nothing more and nothing less.
I sat here and wrote a whole thing on this only to lose it should of saved it.
meaningful testing of muscle strength requires a method of testing specific muscle function, isometrically at certain points of the rom, impossible to do using the squat, valuable exercise, but worthless for testing.
As for mechanical strength resistance employed in light exercises is not sufficient to forcethe body parts into positions that will produce increases in the existing ranges of possible movement.
Forexample: when performing bent-arm pullovers on a flat bench with a light weight, the elbows will seldom beforced much if any beyond the forehead –and little or no improvement in the possible range of movement willbe produced.
Likewise, since the involved muscles will not be working throughout their entire possible range ofmovement, it will be impossible to induce a maximum demand for either muscular mass or strength increases.
So, isometrics is a factor in exercise, a requirement for producing strength.
that is all
0ni
Registered Rustler
Nope it's definitely force
https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/force.php
https://www.easycalculation.com/physics/classical-physics/force.php
steveP
Well-known member
I think you guys are discussing different valid points. Fadi is saying that a muscle has the most potential for strength when in a resting state. You're saying that a muscle is using maximum strength when full contracted. One point is potential strength and the other is actual.
Goosey
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Firstly, when you say "resting", do you mean isometric?
if so, and this is my view to begin with, the fact that you are strong isometrically is due to full range exercise, the resistance must be heavy, heavy enough to force body parts into a fully stretched position, as I have stated.
the degree so force one applies isometrically is dependent upon the angle in the rep, and the strength curve transmitted by the exercise used.
the duration of force is dictated by the % of slow and fast twitch muscle fibre types in the muscle/s applying force.
easy to determine on isolation, multi joint is impossible.
so to state that my muscle is strongest isometrically is not correct.
to many variables, and no way to measure, I'm big on measuring.
0ni
Registered Rustler
That is the definition of force
Holding 200kg still produces less force than moving 100kg at 3m/2
If you're looking at generating the most force then the weight needs to be ACCELERATING
Whether or not this is best for training is arbitrary
C_T
Kunce of the Year 2015
speed + power = force if im not mistaken.
just like the 125lb bruce lee, was very tiny, but very fast, so it made up a huge power deficit by being stupidly fast
edit: small muscles like bi and tri back to back i was using just 5 second rests. just BOOM! just smash it! stop this chit chat and back slapping in the gym, DO IT!
just like the 125lb bruce lee, was very tiny, but very fast, so it made up a huge power deficit by being stupidly fast
edit: small muscles like bi and tri back to back i was using just 5 second rests. just BOOM! just smash it! stop this chit chat and back slapping in the gym, DO IT!
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C_T
Kunce of the Year 2015
when we rest, think about what happens internally. imagine if 1 person rest 5 mins between sets all the time
and imagine if the other rests 20 seconds.
now, if they both do the same, with they have the same result? absolutely not.
the body to cope with limited rests is what everyone should be striving for, this is how you legit challenge yourself if you want to be a bodybuilder... if you want to be a powerlifter, go with 5 or 10 min rest, do that. no hate here.
but if you wanna change your physique, then do as i say, challenge yourself, push hard, and grow.
and imagine if the other rests 20 seconds.
now, if they both do the same, with they have the same result? absolutely not.
the body to cope with limited rests is what everyone should be striving for, this is how you legit challenge yourself if you want to be a bodybuilder... if you want to be a powerlifter, go with 5 or 10 min rest, do that. no hate here.
but if you wanna change your physique, then do as i say, challenge yourself, push hard, and grow.
Fadi
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Hey brother, here's the formula which I've always stated on the forum.
When strength and speed get married, they make a beast of a baby we call POWER!
It can also look like this:
And to be a little bit more technical now, it can also look like this:
Power is calculated as follows
ower = work / time. Work is the force x the distance. So if you moved a 60kg weight one metre in just one second you could calculate power as follows: 60 x 1 / 1 = 60 wattsSo, if we move fast we have increased power because we are doing things in less time. However, there is a trade off in that as we speed up more and more we produce less force, which means less power again. So the power curve peaks at an ‘optimal’ velocity in the middle where the time taken and the force being produced is balanced.
The implications of this are that if you want to be very powerful with throwing a punch say, you need to move quickly and forcefully, but not try to go so fast that you don’t allow your muscles the time they need to generate all the force they could.
An example is that a jab in boxing is fast, but not as powerful as a right cross. In the jab you move very quickly but the force you can muster in your muscles is limited due to the velocity of the movement. So there's always that trade off between force and power, as I had already explained in my previous post #26 on page 3 of this thread.
Taking this to weightlifting pulls for another example. Our aim here is to maintain maximum power without too much of a trade off in force/strength during those pulls. I'll introduce myself here for a real life example... So how do we calculate what weight to put on the bar? Well, based on my best lift overhead of 160kg, I add an extra 10% onto the bar. Why 10% and not 15% or 20%. Well, looking at that graph I produced above, my aim here is to hover over that peak power output as much as I possibly can, without compromising my speed too much, and doing so whilst lifting a weight that is 10% above my best overhead lift. This is how you strike a perfect balance in this marriage between strength and speed we call power. And it's another reason what I am totally against weightlifters performing heavy deadlifting. At least now you know my reasoning behind my decision to disallowing it.
I know some on here might point to lifters like Klokov and say hey look, he's lifting a ton off the lifting platform. I say yes, it's all nicely done for the camera/video also. Don't believe everything you read about elite athletes, be it what they eat or how they train, unless you trust your source of information....period!
I've taken way too much of your time, ...time to apply the breaks
!